HEMI Tech: Oil systems- filters, pumps, pans

NAPA part # is the Wix # with the 1st number deleted.

 

Here are some tid bits of oil pump info...
Dodge started out with what we generally consider to be the '392' pump.
Chrysler started out with what is generally called the 'early style' pump.
...and then there is DeSoto...
DeSoto used the design of the early pump, but, they used the 'foot' design of the Dodge. So what you have is an early style pump that will bolt on to a Dodge or a 392. Conversely, you can put a new M-50 on your DeSoto, of course the pick-up tube must be dealt with but, hey, were fabricators, right? Also, the DeSoto shaft is about 0.100" shorter than the rest so some fussing is required if you swap things around.

276-291 DeSoto on left, 331 Chrysler on right, note the casting numbers.


The feet sure 'look' the same...


time to get the tape out...DeSoto


331...


392...


Hopefully I have been able to offer some additional confusion to the issue..

Gary

 

Sorry if this has been asked before, I'm having trouble finding it if it has.

Does anyone know if the oil pump drive gear on the intermediate shaft from a 318-340-360 small block mopar is the same as the drive gear on the 331-354-392? I know the shafts are not the same, I'm only interested to know if the gears are the same. If the bores are different, I'm fine with that as well.

Thanks in advance. Take care,

David

 

Gears are the same.

.

 

Thanks 73RR!

David

 

Question for the experts:

I have noticed some early Hemi blocks (the industrial's perhaps?) have an extra hole in the oil filter block pad. This is the mounting pad on the block itself. Most blocks have four threaded mounting bolt holes, and two oil holes (one feed and one return). But some blocks have a third oil passage hole. Do you know what that third hole is for?

Thanks a ton in advance for your time. Take care all,

David

 

I used a stock pump on my 354 and it works well,60# at start up and 50# after it warms up.Think about it,they ran forever in the day.Some vendors want you to believe you need a 340 high volume so they can sell there wares.You do not need them,especially for the street.

 

This is for an oil bypass, @ least some of the early Chr blocks arn't drilled for the bypass between the upper & lower oil passage.

 

That's fine if the new Melling pumps fit yours, however the rebuilt pumps generally available won't flow @ the full new capacity, & flow could be reduced as much as 25%. The LA HV pump flows 3.5% more than OEM, the standard LA is less than OEM, but evidently an adequate amount where one was used on one of the Engine Master challenge engines w/o a problem.

 

Thanks for the reply George!

 

Since BashingTin was asking about the holes in the block, thought this was a nice opportunity to bump this up with the discussion of remote filters...

For those of you who are running remote filters, maybe you could share what you've done for hoses, fittings, etc.. Obviously the bigger the fitting is, the less restriction will be on the oil system as well as the least number of tight bends, and the likes.

Share with us! You guys running hard lines with a flex coupler? Push-lock type hoses?? Let's hear/see what you've done.

 

I would really love to see what others have done too. I think Bass did a remote with his 29 Model A Coupe? Maybe he'll chime in with a few picks.

David

 

The engine in my dirt car (photo in my avatar) uses the standard aftermarket remote filter adapter and dual filter mount. The older guys in the vintage club I race with all seemed to be in agreement that with these early hemis you can't run to much oil capacity (my modified pan and dual filters holds 14 quarts!). Anyway, I had 1/2" hoses made up at the local auto (and farm) parts store to hook everything up. I couldn't believe how cheap the hoses were. Of course, this was 20 years ago, which also means that this setup must be OK, because it's lasted this long. The only problem is we have to start the engine about 10 minutes before the first heat to get the oil up to operating temperature.

 

IMHO, the minimum hose size needs to be '-8', or a nominal ½".
Aeroquip fc332 is my very long time favorite socketless hose and the proper fittings are here.

Sharp right turn brass fittings like these should be avoided.


Yeah, I know they are used in industrial hydraulics but that oil is neither cold nor 30w...

I would try to keep the line lengths under 48" to minimize friction losses.

.

 

3/8"/-6 or -8 fittings with 1/2" hoses?

I'm personally thinking of running AN type fittings and push-lock type hoses for my 331 with Hildebrandt type remote filter. Anyone else using these types of fittings and hoses?

 

For those who wonder...

AN ("A" for Army,"N" for Navy)
This standard was originally designed for the U.S. Military. AN fittings are measured on the outside diameter of the fittings, in 1/16 inch increments. Thus, an AN 4 fitting would have an external diameter of approximately 4/16", or 1/4", and an AN 6 fitting would have an external diameter of approximately 6/16" or 3/8". In this case, approximation is important as AN external diameter is not a direct fit with an equivalent NPT thread.

Dash (-) size
It is used interchangeably with AN fittings and thus a Dash "8" fitting amounts to an AN 8 fitting. A dash (-) size in AN "speak" refers to the I.D. of a standard, thin wall, hard line as the basis to construct a comparable flexible hose that may be used in it's place.

A 1/2" thin wall, hard line that measures 500" on the outside diameter (O.D.), has an inside diameter (I.D.) of 0.440", and a wall thickness of 0.030". An appropriate, flexible replacement line would be -8 AN, with a minimum 0.440" I.D. Depending on line construction, rubber with stainless steel or nylon braid, or Teflon with stainless steel braid, the line's wall thickness and O.D. may vary.

.

 

It was a while ago, but I think it was 1/2" NPT, which, I believe is the ID of the pipe. Didn't even consider AN fittings because of the car's vintage. The hoses from the farm store look just right.

 

I have a plymouth p27 block 241 or 259 poly. My stock pan is a little smashed, I am looking for a stock replacement. Hot-hemi says their stock replacement is not for plymouth poly, can you guys help? I hope I'm not beating a dead horse.

 

Can it be hammered out? My 331 pan was beat up pretty good, but nothing a heavy ball-peen hammer, then some hammer and dolly work couldn't fix.

 

Thanks for the info, mine is smashed at the bottom right at the drain plug. Bought the motor for $250, was supposed to be rebuilt & just sat around in a garage. Well finally took it apart & sure enough it was. Have a offy 2 by 2 with 2 chrome large logo 97s & it's going in a 22 Dodge tub roadster, 52 Dodge steering wheel & hubcaps. I'm all fired up about this car and engine.

 

Sending my oil pan to Jack tomrrow, great to deal with. As soon as I get some things together I will get some pictures posted. Again thanks for the help. Roger.

 

Breaks my heart to have to post yet ANOTHER complaint about Hot Heads oil system related components leading to catastrophic failure of a Hemi. Hope it serves as a warning:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=615310

 

Saw that, witch apparently leaves me with a problem. I went with the HH 340 pump because I needed a center sump pan to fit in my '60 Plym. The 331s pick ups are all for rear sump pans. Wonder how to fix it, even w/o mentioning it's getting difficult to find low block pumps that the pick up & pump isn't all rusted up.

 

Yeah, I know man. Sucks! They're such common motors, too. You would think the problem would be solved by now.

Hope that TR WATERS finishes whatever it is that he's working on...

 

For those of you looking for an oil pump adapter, this place just might be the key!

http://hemireveng.net/Default.aspx

I would like to hear some REAL feedback on this oil pump adapter. Couple people said they are using it. I would love to hear from someone that has a ton of miles on their engine with this adapter in place.

 

Now that looks promising! hex end on it so the oil pump doesn't have to be monkeyed with. No one has left feed back yet....

 

Skip and I have talked of the very same type of set-up that Rev is making. Neither of us knew about his. This type offers a couple of advantages. One is the off the shelf pump. Another is using the smaller diameter hex shaft eliminates any misalignment binding issues that have been mentioned in the past.
Of course, the reissue of the early hemi pumps from Melling is great also. No adapters, no pick-up issues. Bolt and go.

 

Seems the only thing orderable thru REV.ENG site is a timing cover & no contact info @ all. I'd guess a number of us are planning on trying thier # that's in the Tex Smith book Monday, but you'd think if they are serious about business thay'd have contact info & be able to order what's on the site. Doesn't look good, but there is a pic of their spin on filter adaptor in Tex's book, so thay must have made @ least some of the unorderable stuff. TR-any chance of expediting production of the hex int shafts??

 

If this is the same guy I think it is, Dennis O'Brien mentioned years ago that he's really tough to get ahold of.

If anyone out in NorCal knows this guy, tell him we need to contact him.

I tried calling a number of times on Friday and again today. Perhaps he went to Bonneville?

Thanks