Hey guys! My 62 Bel Air runs 11.70s, not fast enough to require a roll bar, but still pretty fast. I drive it on the street more than i bracket race it, so I don't want to cage it. BUT... I would like some thing better than the original old lap belt. (even though the factory lap belt is NHRA approved!) I have heard that you cant run the sholder straps over the seat and straight down to the floor, that they need to be more straight back. would running them to the rear seat belt bolts be OK? I just want something better than a lap belt.
Get 3 point harness the lap bels mount just like an other lap belts and the shoulder harness is a Y that bolts to the floor behind the seat.
If it were mine, I wouls run the "lap" portion of a cam-lock harness. 5 points on the street make it hard to drive, if you have the adjusted properly. (Think about changing the radio, turning and looking, etc)
You might want to talk to your local track inspector. Around here if you are messing with N.H.R.A. you can get the boot if things are not correct even if not necessary for your class. If you choose to run a slower class and have a Non legal roll bar or cage it will keep you from making a pass. I'm thinking if you have sholuder harness improperly installed you won't get to run on our tracks. The shoulder belts are now reguired to mount at the shoulder hight to a cross bar. The yoke style is no longer legal. The shoulder belts are to pull you back not down. You can't go over the seat cushion and to the floor and be legal. I'd go get some advise from the local tec guy first. The Wizzard
I run a simpson lap belt in my Corvair Before I straped myself in with a 5 point harness I would look really close at the seat I was straping myself to. Think about where you will be pulled or guided to if you were restrained by a shoulder harness. My '60 Impala has the stock bench seat, and I know I wouldn't want to be tied to that in a wreck.
As a licensed SCCA Tech Inspector, i can tell you for a fact that running a Y harness or individual shoulder harnesses over the top of the seat and down to the floor is not only dangerous, but Illegal with most race sanctioning bodies. What happens in a wreck is your body goes forword and the belts start pulling down on your shoulder compressing your back. This is worse than bouncing your face off the steering wheel, which might happen with just a lap belt. There are two options. Either a bar that runs from one side of the car to the other (like would be in a roll bar) or run them straight pack to the package tray. IF the seat is designed to take the impact of a direct to floor mounting then you can do it. Alternatively, some organizers do allow the shoulder belts to go at a 45 degree angle to the area of the back seat where the bottom and top cushion come together, but it does make the back seat useless.
Throw a bar in it and do it right... My best time my Roadster I could come up with was an 11.70 but at 123 m.p.h. and I was strapped down but if I got upside down I would've been "CHEESE GRADED" down to the shoulders! I regretted not caging that car for the very reason I wanted to see what a real street roadster could run but I managed to get kicked off the tracks before that could ever be determined.
What about a Y type belt that runs back to one of the rear seat, seat belt mounts? On the street it could be removed or rolled up and just the lap part of the harness used??
5 pt harness is not fun on the street. Of course climibing over the door bars isn't great either. I guess it all depends on how you drive the car but it's such a production you don't want to get in or out. Door bars are the worst. 2 or 3 times in the summer?!? How many times do you haul ass in that car when you're *not* on the track?!? I've seen guys that enjoy the drama of trying to get away with not having a roll bar. They like the attention, kinda like rat rodders, or a kid that gets in trouble on purpose. Ghey.
You're Flirting with disaster. Sub 12's require a bar. Y belt hooked to the floor will let your body exit the seat to the side. Please put a roll bar in it or stay off the track.
I'm no expert, but let me tell you what I considered (and still am considering) for my '68 Corvette. I'd like to be able to run SCCA events, and with my 427 race motor, I also need something better than lap belts. I built my car to run the Silver State Classic, but all the safety items aren't there yet. Anyway, I wanted to put an abbreviated roll bar that came up behind the shoulders to attach the 5-point harness shoulder belts. But because my car is a convertible, I wanted a removable head bar. NHRA would not allow it unless it's all one piece and welded. But a few SCCA judges I talked to said I could do that, but the design has to be signed off. Initially, they liked my design, but would still have to see it first hand before they signed off on it. So why not consider something like that? Just don't run too fast in NHRA with that. For a convertible, in drag racing, I think I'm screwed. As I understand it, I can't be any faster than 13 seconds without a full cage, and it has to have a hard top. So I'm not considering NHRA anyway.
Personally, a 5pt harness without a cage scares the crap out of me. There was a guy locally that died doing a "tuff truck" 4x4 competition when he rolled his pickup that had a 5 pt harness and no roll bar/cage. Roof collapsed and he couldn't get out of the way because the harness did its job and prevented him from moving.
Is it possible to build a bolt-in, removable roll bar for that car that could serve as the mounting point for the shoulder harnesses and give some roll over protection and have it be NHRA legal? If so you could install it when you take it to the track, and remove it the rest of the time. If not, well, then forget I mentioned it.
I believe the rules say that if the car has a frame the rollbar must be welded to it .ONLY way you can bolt one in is if the car is a unibody and then it has to be sandwiched plates top and bottom of the floor .My Dart is unibody but i welded the rollbars in with the regulated 6x6 plates.As close as you are to 11.49 i would get a roll bar in that puppy and be safe.The car will proly 60' better afterwards anyway due to the stiffer chassis with less ET robbing flex .I have seen lots of bench seat cars that have a rollbar installed around it ,backseat and all ...
There's no "drama" I have a friend who has a Nova that he put a roll cage (with door bars) years ago, and I have rode in the car around town, it IS a PITA!!!! getting in and out. He has also told me "don't ever put in a roll cage like I did, it SUCKS!" My car has a stock interior and a stock look, and I like being able to throw the wife and kids in there on the weekends and goin' for a cruise or out to supper. All I want is something a little better than the 48 year old lap belt that's in there now. Whats weird is that at 11.70s I do not "need" a roll cage, but if I DO put in a roll cage then I MUST install a 5 point harness that also has to be replaced every 2 years. But if I leave everything alone and the car doesn't run 11.50s, I'm perfectly legal with my 48 year old lap belt. Kinda keeps you from upgrading far as a cost stand point.
coming from an aspault stock car racer/crasher, you absolutley cannot mount those shoulders to the floor over the seatback, as stated before, you will compress your spine in a frontal impact.......maybe just a single rollbar for that purpose alone.......or to the rear package tray........about the only safe/sane ways to do it.......and myself wouldn`t do the package tray........i have seen some shit.......crashed alot of cars over the years.......lol
A 5 point harness isn,t going to do you any good if your head is driven into your shoulders in a wreck . Get a roll bar in that car if you are going to race it!! I watched an old friend flip a quick street car 3 years ago and if it weren,t for a 5 point harness AND a roll bar he would have died! It takes just a second for it to go all wrong. My two cents, Rob.
With the NHRA, in every State I have raced in ( The North/East) They will accept the factory hard top as a coupe. Go figure. It has been that way since forever. For the last few years 11.50 is good for no roll bar. As for the later post on welding the bar to the frame on frame cars, this is from the 08 specs. 4:10 ROLL BARS Mandatory in all cars running 11.49 or quicker, or per Class Requirements. All roll bars must be within 6 inches of the rear or side of the drivers head, extend in height at least 3 inches above the drivers helmet with driver in normal driving position, and be at least as wide as the drivers shoulders or within 1 inch of the drivers door. Roll bar must be adequately supported or cross-braced to prevent forward or lateral collapse. Rear braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5 inches from the top of the roll bar. Crossbar and rear braces must be welded to main hoop. Sidebar must be included on drivers side and must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow. Swing-out sidebar permitted. All roll bars must have in their construction a cross bar for seat bracing and as the shoulder-harness attachment point; cross bar must be installed no more than 4 inches below, and not above, the drivers shoulders or to side bar. All vehicles with OEM frame (i.e., pickup truck where body bolts to framerails) must have roll bar welded or bolted to frame. I am in the same boat as some of you. I have run under 11.50 in good weather,but in the hot and humid, it slows down. This winter I have tweaked it some more to push it faster. I do not want a bar as the car is too narrow all ready. For a full sized car like the Op requested, i would copy a modern 3 point belt system like new cars have.
Another vote for at least a 4 point bar. You can put a swing out side bar kit in it if you want a 6 or 8 point cage. Also the rear bars can be run thru the package tray to keep the rear seat. The car won't twist as much and may be a little more consistant. Your life is worth it!
I just got my 5 point harness back from getting recertified. Attached below is the photo from the Proper Usage Instructions. Note it says the shoulder restraints must be mounted level with shoulders to 4 inches below shoulders. If you extend them way back to teh tray in the back you run the risk of a lot of play and deceleration time/distance before the belts reach their limit. The sudden stop would probably snap your neck. Install the roll cage and you will be much better off anyway in the event something happens.
You see, with a convertible and a big block, I'm screwed. I already know the first time I run, I'll be kicked off the track. But anything is better than nothing. Right now, if my Vette flipped over going fast, I'd probably be decapitated. Also, a side impact would probably kill me. So I'm thinking of doing a roll cage even if it's not NHRA legal, because of the need to bolt the top hoops on. I'll draw a sketch if I can get it scanned, and show you guys what I mean.
Wizzard, Damn I need to keep up with the rules. I need to retract my stayement about harness. Thanks to the Wizzard.
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