Where is the gauge you are reading from for your air pressure? Is it at the gun, or nearer to the compressor tank? If you don't have one at the gun itself, you'll need to get one. I seem to remember something about a hose will drop 5psi for something like every 10 feet of hose. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, but there is a drop with longer hoses.
The regulator is at the gun. I was not extremely accurate in setting the pressure at the gun while painting. The regulator I have came with the gun. Devilbiss recommends 23psi at the gun inlet, and I think they make the regulator to max out at about 25psi or so. I'll have to check that. I also thought afterward that adjusting the fan/pattern can affect pressure. I was using a small 1.5" diameter adjustment for one part of the spray, then a 6" cigar shaped pattern for the other part, all in one session. As far as hose - I was using 35' of 3/8" id hose with all fittings and quick connects being large id to allow good air flow. I think I had plenty of flow at the gun, but not enough pressure because I did not have the regulator adjusted out enough. After reading everyone's posts I believe that changing the mix ratio to the correct 4:2:1 (not the 8:2:1 on the label) and increasing the air pressure at the gun I should get much better paint flow and a smoother finish if I can get my technique down. Thanks for all of the valuable info! Deluxe
I just checked the inlet regulator on my gun. It's limit is 30psi. Devilbiss recommends 23psi at the inlet to create 10psi at the tip. Devilbiss
You may lightly wet sand the worst of the 'peel, that catch's your eye: waist and eye level-ish. Your likely to develop a 'feel' of laying down a flat finish through trial and error. Distance from gun to surface, overlap, time between coat's. The harder is indeed evil stuff to living tissue. It never leave's the body once absorbed. Cover everything of the flesh. Fresh air system is the best. Good luck.
I sprayed tons of Centari back in the day before we switched to Sikkens. I really don't recommend over-reducing it. A couple guys at our shop used to try that trick, and customers had bad fading problems after 5years or so. Use the 2000 kit, or gloss hardener, that's good. Not bragging, but I never buffed out my Centari jobs unless I had a run. But, I painted a lot of cars too. Centari flowed out really really smooth for me all the time. Use a higher temp reducer. I loved painting when it was cool, in the 60's, better flow. You have to develop the nack to get it to flow out without running it onto the floor...not easy. It'll come with practice.
I was really surprised to see so many in favor of using this stuff these days when reading this thread. We used this stuff, alot, back in the old days, but only for quick shoot and roll jobs. The way I remember it, it was a real challenge to get consistent results with Centari, even by painters that had shot it hundreds of times. It's greatly effected by atmospheric conditions, and slight changes in mix alter it considerably. Metallics were particularly difficult, in that there was a very fine line between getting it wet enough to lay down and metallic sag. It was also difficult to get around anything but a very small car with a wet coat fast enough not to have a dry line. Regarding buffing, even with hardener it takes a long time for this stuff to cure. If you try to sand it before it's cured, you won't do anything but clog sand paper. After it is cured, it's hard to cut and a lot of work compared to modern basecoat/clearcoat systems and you will never get comparable results. I think a lot of guys are intimidated by the new bc/cc stuff, but it's a whole lot more forgiving and easier for a novice to pull off a good job compared to acrylic enamel, IMHO. I really wouldn't recommend Centari to a novice, particularly with an HVLP system, and even more so with metallics. Well, maybe for engine blocks, Grandaddy's tractor or......
I've sprayed a lot of Centari...it likes higher temp and even higher humidity helps with flow-out. 2 to 1, with even a little more reducer than that for hvlp, will help with the orangepeel problem. Martin Senour and Sherwin Williams is all the same stuff, just different labels; My favorite for most color/clear jobs.
All very good points, right on the money. We switched from Centari in '92 and never looked back.... That being said, I have a '77 chevy that I shot with Centari in '92, and it still looks great. Flowed out like glass and still has great gloss to it. (but, it does sit inside all the time)
Guys your bring back some good and bad memories of this stuff. I remember painting taxi cabs with it 3 coats in 20 mins back to back and then there was that cold fall night I painted Silver with Centari. started 10 in the night and finshed it 4 in the morning.So cold the metallic would sag and I ended up putting about 6 or 7 drop coats and waited a hour between coats. Man I won`t ever forget that night.
I painted an early '70s Beetle with Centari when I was 15 in around '87. Inadequate equipment, outdoors, etc. I painted a late '70s Jeep about 5 years later with the same equipment but in a semi-enclosed garaged. I painted a hood and fender from an early '80s Volvo with similiar equipment and conditions same as the previous two. I never took it too seriously. I just wanted to throw some paint. All the while I had seen cars at shows with single stage acrylic enamel paint jobs that looked like glass. I'm sure they were sanded and buffed, but I was impressed with what these guys were getting with a middle of the road single stage acrylic enamel. Now I have all of the right equipment and I guess I feel that since this is what I started with 21 years ago and I've seen so many impressive jobs with the stuff then I'll just go with the same for now. I'm not closed-minded about what to use at all. Old school cars, old school paint, seems it could be a match. Thanks Deluxe
Thx to the folks who weighed in on Centari, and by association, Delstar. It's all I've ever sprayed over the last 20+ years. I never saw the need for BC/CC...just more stuff to buy, mix, and spray. Good ol' acrylic enamel w/ hardener...bulletproof, flows out fine, buffs out fine if I'm going for mirror finish. Clear coat not required, but optional if desired. First job I did in '84 still looks like a champ...hugger orange with gold pearl clearcoat. So much for durability... Being a creature of habit, I tend to not jump on new products. Didn't give up 8 tracks until mid-70s. Never owned a CD, DVD, or anykinda digital recording stuff. Never owned a camera that didn't use film. Never owned a phone without a cord....just don't seem natural somehow. I did like when they came out with pushbuttons on phones. And car radios!
Silver metallic is THE WORST. I painted a '68 Mustang once and about lost my mind. It layed out great, go back in the booth with another cup and it had zebra stripes where the metallic had grouped. Color sanding it really is a nightmare, the metallic shears and it ends up looking like primer wiped with WD40 by the time you get the texture right. BC/CC is the best for metallics, it just seems to be more consistent.
Oh yeah....I remember standing back about 4ft away from the car with the pressure maxed out on my gun....blowing metallic paint like a WWII grunt with a backpack-mounted blowtorch....hahaha. What a pain in the ass.
Black, white and red are what I have shot mostly with black making up about 95% of it. I shot some light blue metalic once and wasn't too happy with it. I blamed it on the prep work. The owner wanted to save money and was supposed to have it ready to spray when I walked in. It wasn't. I have always had excellant results with solid colors though. Tiger striping in the metallic pattern is a result of fan adjustment and technique. Tom
I had mentioned in an earlier post about frequent waxing required. Reading some of the other post reminded me the car was a silver metalic. Wonder if I cut too deep when buffing and exposed the metalic. One thing for sure, it has a long shelf life. I found an unopened quart of 99A black two or three years ago that had to be purchased 20 years prior. It looked and sprayed good as a new can. Bob
That's good to know. I have a gallon of '77 Chevy truck white I bought in 1980 and never opened. I'm thinking of using it as a base under the yellow on my truck. Tom
You never color sand any centari that is metallic.For that matter any single stage paint.How I did metallics is I use to lay down 3 coats of mid-wet so I would get a nice finsh and not worry about metallics then change up from a mid temp reducer to a slow and then add 3 or 4 drop coats so as to lay the metallic down. If you worry about the matallic at the first coat you will find you will get orange peel.It is alot easier to get rig of strips then it is to get rig of peel.Another trick is if your matallic are layed down nice but you have too much orange peel you can wate a hour for the paint to lock up then put two coats of clear over the paint. Then you can water sand and buff all you want. another centari nighmare story. I remember when the Depont reducer cans looked the same as the thinners cans with a sight different color to the lable on the can!! So when I painter a 77 impala I was wondering why it dried so fast..DOH used wrong can to reduce the paint!! that was a mess I will never forget.
Exact same thing here, he called it melting the paint. We mix it and only add 3 drops of hardner though
My dad did the same thing...he called it a "fog coat" (over reducing the final coat with a little slower reducer or adding a little retarder) and it would level any metallic "dappling" and actually would help the gloss, IF you used a SLOWER thinner and opened up the fluid nozzle 1/2 to 3/4 a turn...AND if you let that last coat tack up a bit....not wet but not dry either..my dad would test the finish coat before fogging by putting his finger on a piece of tape or masking that had paint on it, and if it wouldnt "string" when pulled away, it was ready for fogging...usually about 10-15 minutes, no more. He said the trick was to get the paint's last coat to the point to where it was just starting to "kick" and was pretty "set" so that when you fogged it with the slower thinner using a far-away distance and increased air pressure and using faster movements that were random in pattern, the paint was less apt to slide (run) on you. As far as the first couple of coats go, you could pile it on by being careful, slowing the speed down a touch, and continually watching how the paint was hitting the surface as it was being applied and then letting it "tack" up good so you could pile drive the 2nd coat on top of the first to get good build, without it taking a dive for the floor. I have painted many cars with Centari, and before that: synthetic enamel Dulux, and nitrocellulous and acrylic lacquers, and I have painted with base and clear and single stage stuff too. This post brings back many good memories of my dad...especially the dulux days...when he was wearing a mask that hardly worked and wiping off the sticky stuff from his fingers and his hairy arms, from his hair and ears...and then, taking a rag with thinner on it, he would clean out his nose and wiped his eyebrows with it!!! ahh, yea....those were the days.....?????? Dads been gone for about 15 years, but I clearly remember what he taught me. And yes one of the things he taught me was "do what I say, and not as I do" when it came to safety and he would never ever let me spray without protection. I just wish he would have taken his own advise. Sometimes dads can be such inspirations and at the same time be such putzes! (Dad, if yer listenin'...wish you were here.)
My dad has been a bodyman for most of my life (I'm 47) and although I never got into the painting side, I've done my share of repairs and let him do the paint work. I worked at a couple of parts stores back in the mid 80s and mixed paint. I got pretty darned good at it, especially matching difficult colors, but this was before the newer paints came out. I did all DuPont lines, Dulux, Centari, Lucite & Imron. I didn't use a mask most of the time and - wait, what was I saying? Just kidding, I remember most things pretty well. Now the paints are way too complicated and far too expensive. There were some great smells though, especially with Lucite & Centari. My favorites were the red pigments. There was something very cool about putting the clear binder and balancers in (when called for), then a color and watching it make all those neat patterns. I'll never get over that. Ok, maybe I should have used a mask...
I always thin it more than recomended about double the thinner they tell you .Of course I have to color sand and buff .Last one I did the fog coat as mentioned ,The A is going in Centari .
Trick to Centari (probably have sprayed several thousand gallons) is to put the can upside down in the sun for about an hour, mix it 70/ 30, lid of hardner and it loves fish eye eliminator for full flow out. I have sprayed it for fifteen years a nd my late uncle actually had a hand in its development. If you get it warm enough, you can spray it straight out of the can un thinned. I have never had any luck with hvlp and centari though, it always liked like at 55psi through a conventional gun. Just my 2 cents
There is an option that makes it alot safer to paint, and that is to leave the hardener out. I know almost all of these guys will tell you not to do that, but Centari used to be painted all the time without hardener. There is one big drawback, and that is that if you screw it up, you'll have to wait a few months to re-do it. Not a big deal on your own hobby car, but a big deal for a pro that has to get the job out for the customer. I tiger striped a light blue metallic a couple years ago because of too hot of a day, wrong reducer, crappy gun, etc. LOL. Had to set it out in the sun for about a month and a half, sanded some on it, set it out another week or so, sanded it again and then re-shot it. Turned out pretty good for my first single stage metallic.
Dump the Centari and use a single stage urethane like Chroma One or the cheaper Nason Fulthane. Lays out and buff nicer and will keep it's gloss longer, but will still give you the single stage look.
Like someone said before, orange peel is the nature of the beast. BEFORE 'back in the day' there was pretty much laquer and enamel. Enamel had to be baked. Somebody came up with enamel with an abundance of dryers in the paint. Self drying enamel = orange peel. As you have read there are allot of tricks to slick out the application. I personally always get runs or sags. But I do not claim to be a 'painter'. So I just consign myself to sanding it flat, smear on the super duty and attack it with my old screaming black & decker. Yeah; heat is gloss!
A little off topic but i'm interested to know what problems 2k paint has caused you? I painted in a poorly extracted paint shop for a number of years and now have a real allergy against 2k paint, even the slightest whiff of the hardner causes severe hayfever like symtoms, streaming and itching eyes, streaming nose, constant sneezing, itchy throat etc and it lasts for 4-6 hours after painting. When i stopped working there it took a number of weeks before i stopped waking up in the early hours of the morning with a really itchy roof of the mouth... any thing similar there to you or anyone else out there?
I had the same problem back in the '80s and quit painting for several years. The last few jobs that I have done didn't seem to bother me as much at first but after using the stuff for a few days it came back again. I don't paint for a living any more so a job now and then isn't too hard on me. Tom
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