Poboyross' Budget Model A Build....Sans the Model A :P

***Update***

So we made the trek out to South Bend, IN to meet up with Rpmrex and get the car body/rear end/parts along with checking out Notre Dame for the first time...and MAN...was it EVER cold!!!!

I wanted to get some pics of us loading up the parts from his truck to mine, but I think we were both so friggin' cold that we just mentally said "f" it. We bounced when the cake was transferred and the parts were loaded. I wish there had been time and temperature available for us to chew the fat some more, but there's always the HAMB!

Here's the truck all loaded up for the trip home:



We made the trip home safely, and got the car parts unloaded into a friends garage space. Hopefully I'll be moving into a heated better part of his building in the coming weeks so I can really get down to business, inspecting every inch of it to work up a plan of attack. Rex said that the body originally came from TN...my homeland! I guess these things move in mysterious ways.

Here's some pics of it set up in the temporary storage:







After getting it home, I saw that the back passenger quarter, along with some lower patch panels, have been welded on over the years, and you can see the light gray areas where some lead work had been done to clean it all up. I wish these parts could talk. It would be cool to see where they had been and what it had looked like when it was last a whole car.

The rear end setup:



Now that I can look at it more intensely, one thing that I'm focusing on is how the rear part of the body doesn't match up with the doors when closed and what to do about it. Actually, I noticed it before I purchased it via Rpmrex's pics....got no bones with it whatsoever....just turning the gears in my head to figure out the logistics of it all. I think part of it has to do with the doors not closing all the way, yet....there's a little knurled metal in that gap. Perhaps the rear of the body has also been warped a bit over time...not sure. Any ideas?

Here's a few pics of what I'm talking about:







I saw an ad in the classifieds for a 30/31 with the what looks to be the same issue, must be common:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=515200&highlight=body

I REALLY want to thank Rpmrex for working with me on all this, for being so cool about it all, and for driving the parts over to the hotel! Too bad we didn't get to go over to 5 Guys Burgers and Fries afterwards! There's always next time Indiana was a blast.

Onward and upward

 

One thing that i never like to see is a cut up origonal firewall on an open wheel ride, i know that some times it's a must, and with the 6 banger it has to be. The 28-29 design with the removable lower piece makes the mod alot better.

I wish i had enough time and money that i could travel around and help guys out, and meet some more HAMBers. With that being said i have a HUGE parts stash and it's allways changing, maybe i could help out with a killer deal or free on some parts. I also have access to a water jet machine to make some surely needed brackets or?

Keep searching, sometimes parts fall into your lap when you least expect it. Take whats given and trade or sell it to fund the parts you can't find...keep the posts coming.

 

Awesome!!! We really need to find a flatty for you!!! That body is in nice shape and will definitely make a nice platform for what will become a really cool Hot Rod.

 

Hit me up on PM! I'm in "search" mode right now, so any and all help is *definitely* appreciated

I know, I know....I do have a Packard 110 flathead that I'm thinking of using....but I know you're referring to the venerable V8. If I come across a killer deal on one...and I mean *killer*, I wouldn't mind. But I'm happy with going the little-to-no-cost route with what I've got, if that's how it unfolds.

Separate thought....if I used the Packard motor, I could "borrow" the name from a fellow HAMB'er....with his permission, of course....call it the "Packrod". Dunno, he might kill me for stillin' his ideuh.

OT from my main topic, got turned on to a fellow artist's work regarding hot rods, Keron Grant:





Kinda Mad Max-ish....but thought it was rad.

Enjoy!

 

I was gald to meet you too. I was suprised to get all that stuff in such a small bed and tucked so low.
I was always wondering why the doors didn't mach the curve of the rear section so well. I was figuring on tweaking/flexing the doors in as much as possible and cutting the forward crossmember and spreading the rear section a touch if needed but never started the project. I would try to find someone that has some doors that you could mount up to see how theirs fit the rear section.
Something else that would work is attach a board or steel tube to the door top and a come-a-long or chain fall to the door bottoms and crank them in till they match the curve of the rear section.
It's going to be great to see it come together on the HAMB. Often these projects get sold and ya never see them again. Keep us posted!

 

Poboyross
The doors are not going to line up until the body is bolted down. If you have the original frame..bolt the body down and then try to line up the panels. One problem that I can see is your missing the front sub frame (quarter panel forward) and the piece that connects to the quarter panel right behind the door. (Pic below) Once you add the sub parts it should line up just like any other model a body/

Look at this link for more body pics
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=464364&highlight=model+door+latch

 

That's REAL good to hear. Now that I've got that replacement subframe I should be good to go...*hopefully*. Just need to get those door posts.



SO, new dilemma. I can't decide WHICH engine I should settle on! I don't have any concrete opinions one way or the other in this respect. I know what I want the car to look like, but outside of that, I'm wide open. Here's some bullet points with my thoughts. I WELCOME opinions and advice.....my poor old buddy, ModelACitizen, has to hear me whine about this every time we chat :/

-I have a 250/PG combo that I started tearing down. Got the setup for $100 bucks...but the engine is seized. I got it loose, and I'll have to replace most everything...piston heads, cam, lifters, get it honed and decked. EASILY $1k investment just for that. If I went that route, I'd REALLY want to get a 3 carb manifold to do 3 Weber 45 DCOE carbs...again...easily *another* $1k. My idea of a budget rod has quickly gone down the tubes, but an interesting setup. Another downside, length of the engine means a recessed firewall or lengthened frame.

-Also have a 38 Packard 110 flathead, unknown condition (haven't cracked it open yet, but it does NOT turn over freely. Would need to get a trans for it (have a standing offer from a local guy), but I figure it would be a gutless wonder, unknown rebuilding expenses, custom mounts, etc.

-Try to find a flathead...which is second in popularity only to an SBC. Might have a bead on one, if it stops SNOWING XP Unknown condition.

-Try to find another 283 (which I love the one in my 50 Chevy) or a 327....and whilst I love the SBC, I then venture into cookie cutter territory...however, I could be saving a LOT of cabbage this way.

My original intent was to do a budget build similar to this:

Model A Sport Coupe Build

Unfortunately, temptation has led me down the path to wanting to buy a frame with 32 rails. This in turn led to the Weber lust...etc etc. I started to think "If I never build another A, I want this one to be as close to my dreams as possible." I foresee myself being able to afford it for the next couple of years, so why not get it while the gettin's good?

As I said, I'm open to any suggestions, interesting engine ideas, anyone who might have a cool affordable engine lying around that they might want to exchange for some duckets, etc. I know that some will likely respond with "it's your ride, do it how you want", but that's the thing, since it's not a matter of the heart here, I need to look at it more objectively...and I don't feel I'm informed enough to do that right now.

 

'61 rambler overhead valve six with 3 speed and overdrive

 

good pile o parts....

 

find a 2.3 ford man its a 4 banger its got plenty o power there awsome on gas and they fit great and cheap i got a motor and 5 speed trans for 200 bucks looks good and runs awsome .look up in the search bar the name kenneth s. when it pops up look under his post 2.0 2.3 than look how many guys use this motor and all the speed parts ive seen this motor hit 1000 hrs power.

 

Is that the Pinto motor? If so, I was looking at that post and doing CL searches (actually Jaxed ) for them. Couldn't find much.

 

nah you can get a ford 1987 mustang motor or you can get a ford ranger motor there mad cheap your in jersey you can deffinitley get one at one of the pick and pulls shit you might even find one for 50 bucks ...

 

Man, I think that every place in Jersey has the "itis". NO ONE wants to sell an engine for under $300...even rusted bricks!

 

ya gotta look man im telling you there out there ..do the craigslist check ..but ya best best would be to go to a pick and pull ou in p.a you will score a complete motor and 5 speed for 300 i have done the 6 cylinder chevy motor already in a coupe its super tight it had a i think 230- 235 2 speed power glyde 46 banjo rear end it had mad torque but needed more gear for the highway like a th 350 it woulda been perfect for the highway ..i also did a v8 rocket motor with old trans and 10 bolt never finished it i sold it .it was a 32 pick up....i always wanted a 4 banger 5 speed high revs and 5 gears to zip around the highway with ..and save gas money lol.

 

After a helluva week of work, I was planning on going on the hunt this weekend...a flatty/trans combo out your direction....maybe towards PA. DURN YOU SNOWWWW!!!

I *do* have a neighbor who has a Olds 455 that runs. Been in storage for a year or two. But he wants $400 for it. Kinda rich for my blood...also don't know what to think about slamming a BBC in that junk.

See, I'm also feeling you on the gas money...which is why I got the 250. Didnt realize how bad a condition it was in, and in order to get it where I want it, it'd need at least $500 sunk into it. It's either find something that's running pretty well/close to it....or get something that needs work and go all out. I don't seem to have a middle ground!

 

dude there never is a middle. i find it for myself if id rather spend a couple extra bucks on a great running motor and transmission than skimp and have to pull it out after ta finished with the build ...to hell with that ...i got my motor for a couple bucks but i heard it run and knew it was a good runner before i pulled it i stript i down and bought a new timing belt water pump and upper gasket kit and oil pan gasket new carb and fuel pump new distributor new coil altornator and acc belts at least i know everything is new and has a warrenty if anything goes wrong.. everything i bought for this car thats machanical has a lifetime warrenty.
oh and be sure anything you buy from n.y as in motors you can bet ya ass they will need a rebuild i know alot of car guys on this island and they sell straight junk i got beat on a big block for my 56 chevy gasser another story for anthoer time but the guy was supposed to be a friend so ...stay way from here for anything and it will be over priced

 

That's what happened with my 50 Chevy. I got a newly rebuilt th350 and an almost running 283 (except for the dirt dobber nest in one of the cylinders! doh.) for $250. Everything else was under warranty as well. In the end, I've got maybe 6k in the car, including purchase price...to me that's budget build. I just don't want to drop 2k on a frame (which I will) then have to drop another $500 on an engine of dubious origins, no one currently in existence knowing if it will even turn over, just so I can say "I've got a flatty" or "I've got a this or that". I just don't want to sound like a damn Honda with a Cherry Bomb going down the road, lol.

 

nah they dont they sound like a straight up stock model A 4 banger .when mine is finished i will post a video of it running ..and you will be able to hear it..i mean if you want a motor you can get a hold of tj over at throttlejockeyoriganals he has a bunch of motors a couple flatheads a flathead 8 from a pontiac wich he said runs (i ve never heard it run) but hes preety straight up check out his web site and give him a call he can probably help you out ...i know id love a flathead 8 with all the goodies but lets face it the parts are super hard to get and cost a shit load i cant afford it and i hate to wait for parts myself..lol....or find a nice small block chevy 305 350 will be pleny for that lile car ...and there every place

 

Hmmm....what about a slant 6? Never dealt with one, but they appear to be tough as nails and interesting to boot. Perhaps an Iron Duke? Aaaaaaargh.....can't make up my mind about squat.

 

The slant 6 is a tough engine. Their only weak link its the distributor drive gear. They last for a long time, but when it goes, it's gone.

 

slant six... a great engine... if you don't have to look at it!

 

I find myself being blow around with little rhyme or reason in my thoughts about motors. At this point, I've gone through all the realistic possibilities; 4 banger, inline 6, and SBC. I go on the hunt only to find that what's *fairly* readily available isn't in running condition or has fatal flaws that discourage me from buying it (like finding out the truth about FWD Tech 4 motors).

I always go through this on things, even on my 50 Chevy build. It's a part of being overly optimistic coupled with wanting to learn things and sucking up knowledge with vortex-like fervor. I realize that patience is a virtue, but the gaps in my knowledge with so many choices at my fingertips keeps me vexed. Here's where I'm at now:

4 banger: Choices include an Iron Duke iteration (I know, the term is thrown around loosely, oh well), Quad 4, or Model A 4 banger. Problems include:
-Not being able to locate ones in running condition
-Finding that they're not that reliable in the ones I can find (FWD Tech 4)
-Costing a lot to get running (Quad 4 needs adapter for RWD apps, Model A
4 banger would need some hop up equipment to get some spunk, etc)

Inline 6: I've got a 250/PG combo where the motor needs more money to rebuild it than
to find another motor already running. I also have a 1938 Packard flathead 6
in questionable condition. Again, need a running engine. Issues with looking
for a inline include:
-Wanting to use Weber side drafts ($$$$)
-more extreme firewall recessing
-availability of ones in running condition

SBC: By the time we get to this point, we get into cliche territory. However, I'm not
opposed to it if its affordable and done right. I have a love for 283's like the one
in my 50, but I'd like another one, or some other non-350 that could maybe utilize
the good Powerglide from the 250 I have. Thoughts include 327s, 265s, 307s,
302s, and 305s (I know, I know...so don't even go there on the 305) Issues
include:
-Again, availability of running engines
-Cost constraints when finding a running one
-Found some nice quality 305s with some hop up equipment at an affordable price
but I hear arguments about good and bad...the bad is mostly grounded in a
general dislike for the engine due to HP limitations

I'm not looking for anyone to flat out tell me what I should get, NO way! I'm actually looking for some more clarity, real life experiences, etc that can maybe shed some more light. Most of the motors to be had, running and in my area, are at least $300....end of story. If it's a more vintage running motor, then jack it up to $400 or $500, easily more. Anything less than that, it needs a lot of work.

I find myself easily letting go of the idea of a budget build, driven upwards by losing contact with the idea of a budget build. It's easy to be looking and go from a *maximum* of $300 for a motor up to $400, then $500. By then I've committed myself to burning through even more cash to complete the motor (manifolds, carbs, lifters, etc) and then I'm up to $1k in no time! My goal is for it to be a sub $5k build, and I know that the frame I want will be *the* big ticket item, the only one I want. So I guess I'm also in need of some Fight Club advice, I want you to hit me as hard as you can. I need some information and advice from unbiased folks with legit info, concerns, and opinions...no bloviating.

 

Well I for one am digging the thought process behind the build. It's really hard constraining yourself when you are building a hot rod but something that's necessary sometimes right?

Here's my thoughts. If you were to go for a Chevy v8 something with side mounts you could do it very budget minded right now and run a very generic combo that doesn't have much money behind it. Get he car running and enjoy it for a little bit. Then when the time and money allows, you could start building a 1958 283 with a stroker crank and a cool intake with some 97's and such on top to replace the one that would be in the roadster right then.

You'd really get the best of both worlds then because you'd be able to build the car and continue progress and then even enjoy it for a bit before getting ass deep into the things that really blow budgets out of the water which is the intake, the carbs and rebuilds, the machine work, the chrome, the polishing etc. You could just build the rest of the car knowing that someday that thing would get a full house 283 with everything just how you want it.

I am dealing with a similar issue on my '35 right now. I want nothing more then to drive it but I also know that I need to finish this car how I'd like to because once it's driving it's going to be hard for me to take it off the road again. On Saturday I started opening up and taking apart the 4 97's that I want to run on my Weiand intake. But as I opened them up I started seeing $$$$$$ being spent on all new insides and right then it blew my budget. So I started thinking that maybe I should run a 4bbl for a while until I can spend the money on the 97's and get them dialed in. At least I'll be driving and it'll get on there when the time comes.

So my 4bbl is your 350 and my Weiand 4x2 is your 283 someday ya dig?

Go for the early 283 eventually and make it rad. For now get one of those running 350's and run it for a while!

 

Right on....that means a lot coming from you. Cept in this case, I've got a rebuilt, running, somewhat hopped up 305 offered to me for the "going" price of motors up here, with some wiggle room. Does that change your mind? Do you possess the 305 hate?

 

No not at all. It's all in what YOU want and how nit picky you are about things. The 305 will work well for sure and will scoot that roadster right along.

Things that bother me on newer engines are...

Breathers on the top of the Valve covers as well as Oil Fill holes.
HEI Dizzys
Bad looking exhaust.

I think if you went with a set of Corvette Valve covers or old Chevy script Vc's and an older intake with the front mounted oil filler tube you would take away a lot of the fluff that sticks out. Have lakeheaders.com whip you up a set of lake pipes or use ram horns and that thing will look great!

I just really wanted a vintage engine of the period in my car so I sought out the 265 and went with it. But if I had just went with the 350 that was in there.....shit I could have been driving it a long time ago!

 

Trying to do an A budget build is great , My model a coupe is also intended to be a budget build. But there are some things I will not be cheap on . As far as engine wise , will you be happy with a late model a 4 or 6, also it is better to spend 500 on a known runner than a 100 on one that has been sitting and have to spend a grand on it. 5 grand investment in a running , driving model A is dirt cheap . I am over that now with some major wheeling and dealing. and have a long way to go. Just get your ideas in a line as far as what you want , then save and save and do it right. you want be sorry. No offense meant to anyone but the A's I see that are built using late model fours and other "non -traditional" pieces just seem to be of the R*t - R*d type hopefully that is not what you are after. Check out my model A coupe build thread . little teaser-the coupe

 

are you ready for an engine? can you keep looking for a while? stuff does pop up. recently i found a caddilac 472 for $200 that will replace the 350 i had for the project. if time allows keep looking.

 

Happy is relative, I suppose. Would I eventually shift over to a rebuilt 283 or 327 down the road, hellz yes....as time and money allowed. I don't think there's a "right the first time" when it comes to swappable components like motors. The idea of a inexpensive, complete, running engine that has the possibility of looking traditional, while at the same time gets decent MPG's has a lot of lure for me. Here's an example of a great build thread where he's making it look traditional in one definition of it, while keeping it budget, good MPGs, and fun!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=537213

The question is, do you consider that a rat? If that was just a stopping point on his way to a car that looks like the black coupester on page 1 of this thread, would your thoughts and feelings change at all?

 

Here's my perspective on the whole matter. With all the shit that people go through to have a "DIFFERENT" engine then everybody else you either build nice quality shit or you don't. That's where you separate yourself form the "boys" so to speak. I think a lot of people today are trying to cover up their lack of style and build quality (attention to detail and combination of right parts) by sticking an engine that's rad by all accounts but when accompanied with the rest of their car it's just sort of falls short.

If you approach your build whether it be a 305 Chevy or a 392 Hemi with restraint and attention to detail then it's going to turn out great either way. So if your budget says 305 Ford and not S.Co.T Blown 59a Flathead then it still can be cool and even wow a few people here and there. You will spend the same amount of money cleaning, painting and polishing a Flathead as you would a SBC right? So there's the key right there. If you've got a 305 then make it the best fucking 305 out there and detail it right.

Fisher put a 350 in his '36 Ford. Now you cannot tell me that it take away from the rest of the car just because it's not a finned equipped flatty right?


I guess what I am saying is that there should be no reason to look back on this point in time and wish you had gone another route. If you like SBC's and you have a good running one in the works then just make it work. In the end you'll have a great looking engine and one you'll be proud of.

Love live the Chevy engine!

 

By the way take a look at 39 Chevy Kustom's thread. He's doing it budget minded but taking the time to address everything he possibly can so that everything flows and it's a total package. He's not running a Horne 4x2 intake or large logo 97's....hell I don't even think the engines internals were touched but because he's going about it with a clear vision of how the car should look it's going to be killer!