Projects Toymaker's Twin Engine Dragster Build

Yep and it probably hurt when the car landed!

 

it had to hurt it

 

Actually it hurts going up when the back rail hits. I hit so hard last weekend this year I walked funny for abut three weeks. The trick is no matter how high you go DONT EVER LIFT!
I just hang on and scream. I have never been that high but maybe half that as the rear rail smacks the ground then on my car. Man that hurts i can tell you!
You have to wonder how cool this photo would have sounded with 32 screaming cylinders pawing the asphault. Thanks for finding it. Rocky is probably feeling better aready just from gettting cranked by the photo!
Don

 

This is a awesome thread

 

anything i can do to help the rockster

 

Yea Roc you don't want any 40 degree runs. That might relocate some teeth and other things.........neat pic though...........

 

HAHAHA I'd love to do it without paying the price Carl, I went thru all my/our Stromberg stuff and only need 1 Float Pin, 3 Acc Pump Rods, besides the kits, acc pumps and needle and seats. You really helped me out my friend I want to thank you again! Rocky

 

If you do lift they settle very gently and you usually feel nothing except you see the front wheels straighten out as it reloads. I dont steer or nothing during a heavy lift. It is a lot more exciting in a rail than a door slammer! Sometimes you might hear me hollerin "Yaba Daba DOO!"
You will have fun, AGAIN!
Keep up the good work.
Don

 

Glad I could help Roc, I love it when a plan comes to fruition.
Now if I could get the flattie to lift?????? Guess I gotta build some more hp......

 

Looking good!

 

While doing research on my Strombergs I found this info (http://www.reds-headers.com/html/red_s_engine_talk_10.html) which helps a person understand the '97 a little better..............
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=599 NOF="LY"><TBODY><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD height=8 width=9></TD><TD width=590></TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD></TD><TD width=590>Red Hamilton's guest writer for this column is, Paul Garrigan (also known as "Rumbleseat")
The following fuel and carburetor article was written by Paul originally to assist members of the MSN Flathead List. It is posted on the Flathead Ford Techno-Source site managed by Bill Bentley. We would like to thank both of them for their support of Flathead Ford fans everywhere.
Fuel Pumps
Flathead Ford stock fuel pump pressure is 3- 1/2 psi. The fuel pump pressure can be adjusted by adding or subtracting fuel pump stand gaskets. The gaskets we get in engine gasket sets are quite thin (about 0.010" thick), and we only get one.
What I use are 8BA thermostat housing gaskets to adjust the fuel pump stand height and decrease the pressure to the 3 1/2 psi that I want. They are only slightly larger, but are considerably thicker. On my '34, I have to use two of them to get my new Carter fuel pump pressure down to 3 1/2 psi from the 4 1/2 psi it had originally.
Just because the fuel pressure is within specifications does not mean the fuel pump is good. It can have good pressure but not pump enough volume. It has to pump at least one pint of gas within 30 seconds with the engine running between 500 and 600 rpm.
Fuel pump push rods are supposed to be replaced when wear exceeds 0.010-inch. The new dimensions of the rods are 7 7/8 - inch, 8 7/8- inch or 10 1/16- inch. If wear exceeds 0.010- inch, the pressure/ volume may be insufficient to feed the engine when asked to run flat out, or during a hot summer day. Watch the amount of chamfer on the cam end to determine when push rod is worn out.
Ford, Holley, and Stromberg carburetors were designed to run on 2 1/2 psi fuel pump pressure, not the 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 psi the stock mechanical fuel pump is supposed to deliver. Why Henry made a fuel pump that puts out more pressure than the carb can withstand is beyond me.
I use an adjustable type fuel pressure regulator located between the stock fuel pump and the Stromberg carbs and set it at 2 1/2 lbs. This prevents flooding from too much pressure on the needle seat assembly.
When you're performing your Spring tune up, be sure you tighten the screws that hold the fuel pump together, since they relax with age. Also check the glass bowl bail to make sure it's tight. As these relax, they will suck air instead of fuel and cause you to stall on a hot day. I recommend you check them in the Spring and again before you take a long cross country trip
Fuel Pressure Regulating
Fuel pressure is very critical to these early carburetors. Early Ford Motor Company shop bulletins and manuals state that the Ford/Holley/Chandler Grove and Stromberg carburetors are all designed to operate at 2 1/2 psi. Yet the fuel pump deliver pressure specification is 3 1/2 psi! I don't understand the thinking behind this.
The Strombergs are very sensitive to fuel pressure because of the float/needle valve design. It just doesn't exert enough pressure to overcome the fuel pressure. They have a tendency to flood when fuel pressure is in the neighborhood of 3 1/2 lbs.
On these carburetors I install a pressure regulator and set it at 2 1/2 psi. This regulator must be physically located between the fuel pump and carburetor since the fuel pump is putting out 3 1/2 psi. If you're entering a classic car for judging, then carry a spare fuel line without the regulator and replace when you get to the meet.
Stromberg Carburetors
Applications:
• 48's had a 1.031-inch venturi and are rated at 175 cfm. They were stock in 1934 and 1935 V-8s with 221 cubic inches. Main jets were 48 at sea level.
• 81's had a 0.812-inch venturi and are rated at 135 cfm. They were stock in 1937 and 1938 V-8 60's.
• 97's had a 0.969" venturi and are rated at 150 cfm. They were stock on 1936 and 1937 V-8s with 221 cubic inches. Main jets were 45 and power valves were #65 at sea level.
• L's had a 1.000-inch venturi and are rated at 160 cfm. They came on 1936 and 1937 Lincoln V- 12s.
The Stromberg carburetor is the most popular and the most plentiful at this time and they are getting fairly scarce.
All of the mentioned carburetors are quite similar and the following can be interpolated for your specific application.
Main metering jet numbers indicate the diameter of the hole in thousandths. Hence, a 46 jet has a 0.046-inch diameter hole. At sea level these carburetors came with #45 jets.
For carburetors in Denver, I use a #43 jet (0.043 - inch in diameter) for starters. These jets are drilled straight through. Carburetors manufactured beginning in the 1960's have jets with a venturi in the middle and shouldn't be drilled.
Since the early carburetors are drilled straight through, they can be soldered shut and re-drilled. The solder is softer than the brass, and the jets will probably have to be re-soldered and drilled about every 15,000 miles or so.
The power valve used to be called the "high speed jet." The Stromberg power valve is all brass and does not have a vacuum diaphragm like the Holley/Ford/Chandler Grove carburetors do.
The power valve has one small hole drilled in the side for fuel flow. Unlike the main jets, the numbers on a Stromberg power valve are NOT the diameter of the hole. They refer to the numbered drill used to drill the hole. (Numbered drills are backward: the larger the number, the smaller the drill bit.) These carburetors come with a #65 drill (0.0320" diameter) for starters. Soldering these and re-drilling, like the main jets, is the way to go since power valves are getting impossible to find.
Below are the numbered drill bits and their diameters:
#61 = 0.0390-inch #62 = 0.0380-inch
#63 = 0.0370-inch #64 = 0.0360-inch
#65 = 0.0350-inch #66 = 0.0330-inch
#67 = 0.0320-inch #68 = 0.0310-inch
#69 = 0.0292-inch #70 = 0.0280-inch
#71 = 0.0260-inch #72 = 0.0250-inch
The dry float level setting is 5/16-inch plus or minus 1/32-inch measured without a gasket. This is close enough to start the engine, but the floats should be set with the engine running so the fuel level is 15/32-inch, plus or minus 1/32-inch, from the top of the fuel bowl without a gasket.
Be careful while making the run setting since raising the float will cause fuel to overflow onto the engine. With this wet setting, there should be no problem with gas soaking through the float bowl gasket and running down the outside of the carburetor.
With the close proximity of the sparking generator commutator, I prefer my carbs stay dry on the outside - no guts nor faith in my fire extinguisher I guess.
On these carbs, the idle discharge circuit supplies the fuel from idle to about 25 mph. The main jet circuit operates between 25 and 70 mph. Above about 70 mph, the power valve cuts in.
The idle screws are different appearing from Holley carbs, although I've seen Holley screws in Strombergs. Each has a different taper angle and they are not interchangeable, even though the threads are the same. The needle taper extends right up the threads on Strombergs. On Holley carbs, the needle taper stops short of the threads.
Many, but not all, Stromberg idle screws have the screw driver slot cut only halfway across , whereas the Ford / Holley/Chandler Grove idle screws all have their screwdriver slots cut all the way across.
Incidentally, the Ford/Holley/Chandler Grove carbs are all basically the same carbs, but manufactured by different companies.
I prefer Strombergs over the Ford/Holley/Chandler Grove carbs for a few reasons, especially on multi-carburetor installations.
One reason is the throttle base. The Stromberg throttle base seems to have better machine work on the throttle valves and the throttle bores, in that they don't stick when coming off idle at a stop light. This makes for smooth throttle openings and in addition they return to idle without sticking.
Another reason is that you can access the three body to base throttle screws from the top. This allows you to change jets without upsetting the throttle linkage adjustment.
A third advantage, in my opinion, is the Stromberg 's power circuit. It uses mechanically operated brass power valves instead of vacuum operated diaphragm power valves as found in the Ford/Holley/Chandler Grove carbs.
When using multiple carburetors the manifold vacuum is usually low, which contributes to premature opening of the vacuum controlled power valve. It's not uncommon to find these valve s opening with less than adequate throttle applications, since almost any drop in vacuum is enough to make them operate.
As can be envisioned, this leads to a rich condition when it's not needed. It is impossible to compensate for this over rich condition by reducing the main jets, because when these vacuum power valves open it's the same as increasing the main jet size 10 whole numbers - no wonder they always run rich!
The Stromberg's mechanical power valve operates mechanically and is relatively unaffected by low vacuum. This eliminates the over rich conditions caused by the power valve opening too soon, or when it's not needed. Also, the Stromberg power valves can be drilled to suit your needs and driving habits, whereas the vacuum type cannot since they are sized during manufacturing.

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copy/paste
thanks..

 

Good stuff! Keep at it Rocky. four more months.

 

ONLY FOUR! What have I done!

 

Awesome thread Rocky! Started reading it early this morning and could not stop to the current post... As I'm reading through, I glance over to my diecast collection of diggers, especially Ivo's twin in particular! Keep up the great work and inspiration! I would kill to see that digger in action!!!

 

Thanks Mike! I have both the Intakes tacked together and all the carb pieces sorted out, still a long way to go but making progress.

 

The piece on Fuel pressure was interesting. When i ran the Tillotsons on my rail I had to deal with fuel pressure vrs flow too. They are similar. They needed 2.5 to run at all but would flood with anything over 3.5. With a mild cam it was managable but when I got serious the balance between fuel pressure and fuel flow became too much for me HOWEVER i left it all together and hung it on the pegboard. Having rethought the whole deal through I am wondering if I had put two or more regulators in the system I may still be able to get it to work again with hgh fuel flow. Regulator Creep was the big problem. I used a Holley Low pressure regulators . i would set it at 3.5 PSI but it would sometimes be 3 and ten minutes later 5 PSi.At five they would drip and flood. Now I think if i had two regulators or even three chances are at least one would be working properly all of the time of the three and pressure would stay even. After i get where I wanna be I may go back and revisit this. Regulator creep is always a pain in any race car but my carbs like strombergs just wouldnt tolerate excessive pressure at all. My current fuel systems which are 6 -7 PSi use no regulators. I use street pumps which are regulated at 6 PSi and if I need more flow i add a pump (IE one for primary side of carb and one for secondary. Much more stable set up than the downsteam regulators. If I could have had 3 psi pumps with the mult carbs i would have even if I had to use two or three electrics. I have come to hate downstream fuel pressure regulators. "they aint no good , they never was and they never ever will be" . Anyway it was an interesting piece on the exact problem. Thanks for putting it here. Shimming the mech fuel pumps is a very cool idea.
Looking good BTW!
Don

 

i found the best way to get the flow and the pressure to stay at 2.5 psi is to use a a return line and install a holley regulator on it

 

Looks great Rocky! What are you gonna cover the valley with? I assume you have a plate made or duct tape?

Don, I too have all sorts of pressure problems using 94's on my FED, I use one Holley type regulator, set it at 3 psi and the next thing you know it's at 8 or 9. I've just learned to live with it by fethering the throttle when pulling to the line and when it's wide open fuel doesn't seem to be a problem. Never thought of two regulators.

 

Awesome project! Just saw the videos of the engines running! That's tooooo bad asssssss! You are the man man! Josh

 

Thanks Tudor! On Lee's IMCA Alcohol Fuel system we used a Barrel Valve which at idle returned most the fuel back to the tank. Jeff did you mean you'd use a return line between the Reg and Carbs with a small "jet" to eliminate Reg creep?.

 

Drewfus ask this question on the HA/GR board and I thought I'd post my answer here also. There is alot of info on the HAMB but I had to go to many different threads.............

I found that a couple of my Emulsion Tubes were crushed by overtighting the jets, I don't have any photos but look for "Egg" shaped orifices in the groove near the venturi end of the tube. I figured out how the "Power Valve" system works, I knew that it was opened by the Accelerator Pump at full throttle but I didn't realize the "Pump Shot" goes thru the orifice in the side of the Power Valve and the article enlightened me that the larger the Power Valve number the smaller the orifice. Check and compare your jets as most are old, chances are someone drilled them and check all passages as I found an Idle Circuit Emulsion Tube that was plugged by what I believe was solder, sombody fought that carb for a while Although I don't have the Choke Plates I'm told they flow more air with them and don't like to Scoops ramming air into them and "Soda Blasting" (Baking Soda) works great. "O" and all emulsion tubes are not the same, Stromberg made some changes during their production so if you take a buch of them apart probably a good idea to keep them matched to their original "Bodys". I also "Back Grind" my Screw Drivers to assist in removing stubborn slot headed screws, again no pic but basically I put an edge on the blade to prevent the Screw Driver from twisting out and actually "Dig into" the slot, just don't make it too agressive. I think that's it Drewfus. Rocky

 

When i actually look at the inside of a Regulator especially Holley I am confused. Here we are told to run huge lines (I dont anymore with no penalty) Pumps that would put out a forest fire and we are squeezing it all past some stupid spring check ball that has a hole about 1/4 inch and like Mctim just said one minute it is 3 and the next it is 8 PSI. I tried a Hilborn Idle bypass on a return line. I lost volume all the time so it wasnt quite what i wanted. I have also thought about runing snowmoblie pumps. they are pulse operated and are designed specifically for these carbs and would work perfect for Strombergs too. Snomobiles make huge power now like 100+ from two cylinders so fuel volume wont be a problem. The pumps reguire a pulse to operate. It is taken in the snowmobile from the two stroke base but an intake pulse may work just as well. I see them at the local store , HD ones for $49. A pair would feed my animal if it would work. The trouble is finding the time to try all this stuff. Anyway I am watching and reading with great interest.
Don

 

Killer project....

Fuel pressure regs....the most common Holley reg (12-704), the one that comes with their pumps, will not adjust low enough for 97's...
PN 12-804 is a 0-4 psi reg....which looks just like the more common one, but works great for 97's, and other low psi carbs.

 

Just my opinion, but I don't think Holley electric pumps like to "deadhead", I think it burns them up.
I think it might be a good idea to run a return line to the tank and have the regulator on the return line.

 

I have used a electric pump for my VW I think it was for low pressure for weber carbs Cb Performance one for 3 1/2 psi , one for 5 1/2 $ 64.95 each

 

no, you plum the pump to the carb where you have a t one side goes to the carb the other side to a holley pressure regulator with a return line to the tank that way you have all the flow and adjust the pressure by restricting the flow back to the tank

 

Hi:

I had a friend that built an of the wall twin engine truck years ago with the 2 3'rd member idea. He ran spools in the twin 9" Ford chunks and did NOT run an axle from one to the other in the center. He ran only the outside axle in each side so there was no middle axle ran at all. I am trying to see f he has some pic's to post here.

Cecil

 

Jeff, How does that work (other than real well), I'm missing something as my thoughts are the Reg doesn't regulate what comes into it only what is delivered from it.

Would love to see it Cecil. Rocky

 

Regulated back pressure......it's like a fluid brake.