Register now to get rid of these ads!

Should I cast a Stromberg 97 EFI throttle body?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jaspittman, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member

    I’m a mechanical engineer by trade and in my last job I designed and built fuel injection systems.

    The company went out of business last year and I went stir crazy while I looked for another job. I passed the time by designing a Stromberg 97 throttle body that would duplicate the original look, reuse the base of the carburetor (part that houses the butterflies), and flow more air then any modified carburetor could. I ended up getting a job and put the project on hold.

    Over the holiday I got the design quoted and would like to know if anyone would be willing to buy a throttle body if I had them made. The price would obviously depend on quantity but I’m guessing I could sell them with everything including injectors (minus base) for $350-450 (maybe cheaper if I had a lot of interest)

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated?
     
  2. in my humble opinion, it is easy to make and invent stuff, but it sure is hard to sell it:mad:
    everyone will tell you they will buy it but will you ever get rid of it

    i just auctioned off a ton of dies, leftover parts, and the stuff i could not sell, was a expensive experiment

    make a prototype and sell it out to someone else and let them go sell the product, its really easy to build parts compared to find buyers IMHO
     
  3. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member

    Thats why the company I used to work at went under.The product was top notch but they couldn't sell enough to keep the doors open.
     
  4. Doesn't someone already sell a 97ish efi ?
     

  5. Patdoody
    Joined: Feb 9, 2007
    Posts: 244

    Patdoody
    Member

    I would! Could probably fuel an 8ba nicely with 2 or 3 of them with small injectors and mega squirt controlling it. where are the injectors? in the fuel bowl?
     
  6. cornbinder52
    Joined: Dec 31, 2006
    Posts: 385

    cornbinder52
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    efi 97 would be nice. would be a tough sell in this economy.
     
  7. sawzall
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 4,721

    sawzall
    Member

    only iF you have the electronics figured out, and can sell a package to the masses, and can provide 24/7/365 tech support and can pull all this off at a price only slightly higher than a carburetor

    I'd say NO...


    although my 40 has fuel injection, unless your putting LOTS of miles on an old car. Fuel injection really doesn't make much sense..

    the cheapest aftermarket kits are $1800.00 and up and that kinda money buys alot of gas..

    I was lucky and fell into a good deal.. otherwise.. I'd have a carb..
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  8. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    You might be able to hazard a market/sales number. Perhaps by looking around a few shows and then talk w/the folks at the SEMA show. Some old carbs have leakage issues which would be an advantage to this rig.
     
  9. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 7,092

    thunderbirdesq
    Member


    Agreed.

    And from a traditional standpoint, I see it like this:

    You're dealing with a VERY small section of an already very small market.

    Most guys that like 97's like them because they ARE 97's, not just because they look like them.

    The guys that know the difference, will know right away. The guys that don't know the difference won't care whether it looks like a 97 or not.

    If I were you, I'd design my own fuel injection unit. Something cool and completely different. Why dress it up to look like something it's not?
     
  10. 3onthetree
    Joined: Feb 25, 2008
    Posts: 161

    3onthetree
    Member

    I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but looks like Retrotek is already doing it.
    http://www.retrotekspeed.com/produc...ies/2x2-tb-kit/2x2-throttle-bodies-2-inj.html

    I was kinda considering going that route on my straight six, since the current multi-carb setup is so evil in cold weather. There's no exhaust heat warming the intake anymore, since I don't run the stock exhaust manifold. I'm not sure efi would help out any or not.
     
  11. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member

    I'm using 50 lb/hr injectors in the fuel bowl.

    There are other 97ish systems but ask anyone who seen them they do not look like an original 97. And they are over 500 by the time you put injectors in them.

    I have experience tuning stand alone ECU's and I don't believe it’s as hard as most people think. That being said I will admit the majority of my time was spent trouble shooting when I worked designing and developing injection systems.

    I do believe the new EZ-EFI from Fast may be able to help the novice out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
  12. I think it's a cool idea....but you'd probably need Ready to run packages, with electronics and everything dialed in. Kits available in 2,3,4,6 carbs.
     
  13. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member

    If i had to guess i would estimate a 3 carb system with Fast EZ-EFI electronics for a SBC system would run about $2,500.
     
  14. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member

    Here is a screan shot of the design.
     

    Attached Files:

    • demo.JPG
      demo.JPG
      File size:
      96.5 KB
      Views:
      1,410
  15. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member

    If you reused your stromberg manifold and carb bases it would be around $2,000
     
  16. Hot_Rod_Joe
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 273

    Hot_Rod_Joe
    Member

    Good point!
     
  17. 31ACoupe
    Joined: Nov 14, 2005
    Posts: 1,416

    31ACoupe
    Member

    very nice work, it looks like a great project but the marketing end could be extremely tough and a guy could lose his shirt on such an effort. big money needs to get behind it or it probably won't work. would be a good promotional item for the upper end hotrod and racing community. i like it but couldn't afford it.
     
  18. Patdoody
    Joined: Feb 9, 2007
    Posts: 244

    Patdoody
    Member

    I think the hardest part about selling this set up to the masses, is that the majority of the masses is old guys... who are afraid of techy computer stuff. when in all reality 30mins on a dyno and stand alone efi you will have a perfect running vehicle that will require no tuning ever again[unless you change something major]. Most dyno shops now adays will even tune the car for you, becasue thats where the tuning market is anymore... and now-a-days you can get a pre-built megasquirt standalone efi management system with the sensors[usually common gm stuff] for under 500.00.. and compared to the big systems like fast, dta, holley,etc is the same or better.
     
  19. DocWatson
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 10,273

    DocWatson
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Although it does sound interesting I do believe you answered your own question...........
    The company went out of business last year.
    Thats why the company I used to work at went under.The product was top notch but they couldn't sell enough to keep the doors open.

    Doc.
     
  20. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member


    That’s why I’m not trying to start my own business off this idea. I was just curious if anyone would like to buy a throttle body if i had them made.
     
  21. Boones
    Joined: Mar 4, 2001
    Posts: 9,691

    Boones
    Member
    from Kent, Wa
    1. Northwest HAMBers

    I think there is a market for it, would not be for the average hotrod due to cost but as fuel cost go up, and EFI get better mileage usually, the market will grow. I agree I think the new EFI set up from Fast might be the way to go. Guys I work with are into late model go fast cars running EFI and the stuff they talk about (labtop tuning) blows my mind. so many maps and variables.. but they can sure make a 600 hp (at the rear) very streetable and an easy daily driver..

    I would love to build a Hot motor and run 97's (EFI).. not sure I could afford it, but building a 3, 4 or 6 duece set up is not cheap either.
     
  22. resqd37Zep
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 3,216

    resqd37Zep
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    <DD class=source>http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/nostalgia-efi</DD>
     

    Attached Files:

  23. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member

    I've seen the retrotek throttle bodies before but i wasn't a fan of the look. Also I think they made a mistake in the positioning of the injectors. But unless I&#8217;m mistaken, these are the same throttle bodies Moon developed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
  24. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,672

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As stated above, I believe the Retrotek bought the rights to the Moon setup. last time I looked at the Retrotek site the setup was listed as no longer available. I think there is a market. Maybe even a growing market due to title and emmission issues and as gas keeps getting higher % of ethenol. To get there you'll have to put a set together for yourself and actually get it running and the bugs out of it.
     
  25. I think there would be a very small market for them. If you could make the throttle bodys in a fairly low quanity so you donot have to invest your life savings and sell them for about the same price as a carb some would buy them. Id be one for sure. I donot think you need to sell a complete kit as alot of us already know a thing or two about EFI. With our gasoline going up & up in carborator unfriendly enthenol % there will come a point when you say enought and swith to some kind of fuel injection. I did think about buying the Moon/Retrotek units but did not because of where they put the injector and i probally am not the only one. Keep it simple at first and see where it goes. If You do make some please let me know as i have a 2 motors in the shop Id like to convert to EFI 97's. 6x2 572 caddy and 3x2 blowen Merc flatty
     
  26. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,187

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    The market out there is small, but growing. There's (thankfully) plenty of young rodders out there who grew up with EFI and that's all they know. EFI for them is a natural.
     
  27. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,187

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    Oh, so to answer your question, YES I would cast enough for you and one to sell. Keep one set in stock so when someone asks you about yours, you can provide timely delivery.
     
  28. moonlight graham
    Joined: Apr 17, 2007
    Posts: 163

    moonlight graham
    Member
    from wyo

    I bought the retrotec kit and by the time all was said an done pretty much replaced everything but the cast throttle bodies. I run the EFI on a flathead and it runs fantastic.
    I don't know if that helps but I am a big fan of EFI.

    Geoffrey
     
  29. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member

    The problem with "complete" systems is a company has to make them cheap enough to sell and still return a huge profit due to the low volume of sales. What you usually get is a system that is just barely capable of running your motor.

    I think this is allot of the reason most EFI systems get a bad rap; and why I want to reuse as much original equipment as possible.

    I'd really like to get this made, if for nothing else but to one day see one of MY throttle bodies on some car cruising down the road.

    If I could get this made and sell for near cost what would you be willing to pay?

    My thoughts are if I could sell 10 throttle bodies at cost I could justify making a few extra to place on the shelf.

    Would anyone be willing to buy one for $220 without injectors?

    That would include the upper casting and internal fuel rail.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
  30. jaspittman
    Joined: Jan 12, 2011
    Posts: 11

    jaspittman
    Member

    Some people have expressed interest so I am going to start negotiating with manufactures. I'll keep everyone posted.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.