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getting a title in the state of IL.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by amalgamated, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. amalgamated
    Joined: Jul 6, 2010
    Posts: 51

    amalgamated
    Member

    start by telling you guys merry christmas. OK if you did not see my thread on the FNG page i built a 32 3window coupe from the ground up got it the point you could start and drive it then started the process of title and reg. took 9 months and 1500 bucks so fyi the high points the state is going to make you get a bond and the will try to tax every nut and bolt i do not know what the work load is but the time it took was crazy if your in IL and working on your ride keep track of your paper work and document where all the parts came from if bought out of state it will be taxed 6.25% in the states eyes you are a theif right off and you have to prove you are not . good luck and dont give up
     
  2. ...first thing anyone should do on a new project is get the paperwork in order.
    ...by this I mean get a good title first from your state, or know what will be required to licence your vehicle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
  3. ZomBrian
    Joined: Jan 24, 2008
    Posts: 1,143

    ZomBrian
    Member
    from in IN

    X2! There's nothing like working on a car that you know is headache free paperwork-wise. You IL boys sure do seem to catch a lot of flack for having old cars. I guess that's how us "out-of-towners" get em so cheap sometimes, a lot of folks give up the fight.:):(
     
  4. Willy301
    Joined: Nov 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,426

    Willy301
    Member

    I was out and about in my state yesterday (Ohio) and saw an old truck sitting in a fence row. I have considered going to see if a guy could get a closer look at it, and then pursuing recovery of it if it were salvagable.....alot of these paperwork threads provide a bit of discouragement, especially if the farmer in question was not the owner of the truck in question.
     

  5. amalgamated
    Joined: Jul 6, 2010
    Posts: 51

    amalgamated
    Member

    had all my paper work and documented the parts had a certificate of origin for the body parts receits photos they said i could have done all on photo shop and would still have to get a bond
     
  6. ZomBrian
    Joined: Jan 24, 2008
    Posts: 1,143

    ZomBrian
    Member
    from in IN

    True. Coming from Texas where folks at the DMV would actually help you through the hoops and tell you that if the previous owner was deceased to get the "deceased's signature";) to what we have here in IN...well it's like this.

    I don't know how folks get hired on at the BMV here but they are always "hiring" in that there is always a sign posted but they never call (me). I think it works like jury duty in that everyday they call up maybe 30 people and then choose the 12 "best dressed" which turn out to be the least qualified people. I mean, I can go there every day and never see the same person working...but they all look like they didn't apply or want to show up. They also treat YOU as if you are on trial. The only one that knows what is going on is the "foreman" that comes over to explain that my 60+ year old car should have it's mileage exempt. I just can't wait until I have to renew my license...they've added a few more hoops to the obstacle course!:eek:
     
  7. amalgamated
    Joined: Jul 6, 2010
    Posts: 51

    amalgamated
    Member

    this is my point at the start they think you are trying to pull something the only paper work they would look at was what they could tax the rest was all lies i just wanted to let the IL guys know to look in to a bond before they start to try and cut down on how long the process takes
     
  8. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,534

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    Sam, having paperwork on a pre 48 car in the fine state of IL is almost worthless unless every number on the car, paperwork, engine and chassis match and are easily read, then it still may not matter. Expect to have to get someone to inspect and document those numbers. IL wants everything older the 48 to have a bonded title, or to have been a previous IL title. The process of getting a bonded title requires the project to be a running, driving car. You simply can not get your paperwork in order without having a functioning, complete, built project. Then you need to expect to hand over a pile of cash to the state.

    This has been covered before, I'm amazed how many people still think you can take a piece of paper for a pre 48 car or truck into the IL DMV and walk out with a title in your name. Hasn't happened, except on very rare occasions, since mid 2009. Those days are gone forever. Its time to enter into the new state of affairs in vehicle licensing in the state of Illinois, like it or not. Gene
     
  9. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,327

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    Hey Tim, Atleast you finally got some paper on it congrats!
     
  10. amalgamated
    Joined: Jul 6, 2010
    Posts: 51

    amalgamated
    Member

    the bad part about the process is you have the DMV the S.of State.the S.O.S bond title dept.the ILdept of revenue.all wanting there cut and the do not comunicate between each other and no clear cut process to go by and the paper work you send to them is not shared
     
  11. amalgamated
    Joined: Jul 6, 2010
    Posts: 51

    amalgamated
    Member

    thanks mike hope to see you new years day
     
  12. trukin55
    Joined: Jan 27, 2008
    Posts: 139

    trukin55
    Member

    If I have an Illinois title to transfer, does it go any easier? Anybody know???
     
  13. grey46
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 166

    grey46
    Member

    I have had the pleasure of this nite mare more than once ,so far have lost two titles .When you surrender it for new its gone forever period,so have your stuff together as you will not get it back. I have just been in contact with the person that has the finial say if you get a title . I was told ALL 48 or older titles in state or out of state are now being "being looked at" Part of their computer program automaticaly kicks out 48 and older titles. If your Illinois title is clear and some what current ,and there is a matching vin tag or frame stamping that exactly matchs ,you may just have to have it verified by a police officer. There is a form dont have the number off hand that can be picked up at the local DMV its a vin verification form. Cop fills it out after checking the tag or stamping,and you add it to the paper work when you apply for a new title . If they like it ya get a title if not Bonded.
     
  14. Ebert
    Joined: Feb 13, 2006
    Posts: 1,920

    Ebert
    Member

    The damn things look like this...I know as I had to use one this past Fall. Have since bought a 40 Ford with a CA title and no problems as I sent EVERYTHING in with my application..even the damn ad for the car that had the VIN in it. What ever happened to the old saying "you are innocent until proven guilty?" OOPS, I forgot....I live in Illinois!
     

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  15. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,713

    Torkwrench
    Member

    If you want to title an old car in Illinois, just bribe Gov. George Ryan.........OOOOPPPS......He's in jail........:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

    Well then......Just bribe Gov. Rod Blagoiavich.............Hmmmm.....Isn't he in jail too????? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

    So.....Who's the current govenor????? :D:D:D:D:D:D
     
  16. GlassThamesDoug
    Joined: May 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,527

    GlassThamesDoug
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Anymore..............aren't the Pre 48 orignal older resto's going for next to nothing...Buy a Dam Model A for peanuts with all original paperwork and a clean title and then rod it.....Sedans and Coupes are getting dirt cheap for these early fords, hate to hack a resto....but.....there are plenty of them.
     
  17. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Well, there are (at least) two issues involved in Illinois. One is the titling requirements and the other is sales tax (aka Use Tax in some circumstances). I have been exposed to both in recent transactions. One succesful, the other not so.

    Very recently I titled and paid an appropriate amount of "use Tax" for a 1949 Olds Convertible. The title came from the Secretary of State almost immediately. The Letter of Assessment from the Department of Revenue followed by about two months. In Illinois, if you buy from an individual, as opposed to a licensed vehicle dealer, both the process and tax due are different. Mine was purchased from an individual. Therefore, I had to take the old title to the DMV, apply for a new title and they collect the use tax on behalf of the Dept of Revenue and charge you according to what you say you paid for the vehicle. They do not require, at that point, any Bill of Sale or other proof of purchase price. If the declared purchase price is below $15,000, the Use Tax is only $25. If $15,000 or more, it starts at $750.

    In my case, I actually paid well below the $15,000 demarcation but the Dept of Revenue looks at the year/make/model and decides if THEY think you.. a) paid too little (below the actual market value),... b) are lying, or... c) even less likely, telling the truth. In situations 'a' & 'b', they send you the aforementioned assessment and demand the unpaid tax, interest and penalties. They use the language "we have obtained an independent valuation" and based their tax demand on that figure. You are told that you can protest, in writing, and a hearing will be scheduled. If you do not request a hearing by a certain date, the assessment stands and cannot be appealed thereafter. And they suggest you get an appraisal from "any Illinois licensed auto dealer". That is easier said than done.

    I chose to protest vehemently, but absent any profanities, and included photographs and said once they looked at the pics, if they still felt a hearing was necessary, so be it, but it seemed to me to be a waste of everyone's time and resources, and then waited to see if they responded. Well, it took awhile, but last week I got a form letter referencing the previous assessent letter and an "adjusted balance due" which was "$o.oo". No commentary, no explanation..........just the 'adjustment' to zero.

    Now, I have to say in all fairness, if me or anyone else does lie about what we paid, we deserve to be called on it and required to pay the lawfully prescribed tax. Whether we think the law is fair or not is a seperate issue. However, enough people have lied about it, and I know some of them personally, that it is not surprising the Dept of Revenue is skepticle.

    The solution, as I see it, is to change the process for any private sale transaction to include a proper Bill of Sale, with the penalty of perjury for falsification, and a few photographs to substantiate the vehcile condition. Yes, all this can be misrepresented by the applicant, but I think the threat of prosecution for perjury would significantly reduce, if not totally eliminate, fraudulent claims. The financial and time burdens of this suggested process is no more than, and probably less than, the way it is often being done now.

    The titling issue is somewhat similar in that the frequent practice of buying a "historical document" (aka and old title) that is the same or similar to your project vehicle and claiming it is the title you got with the project is akin to misrepresenting the sale price.

    Now, I have a lot more sympathy for this time honored practice in the hot rod community because, I believe, it was rarely used to actually document a stolen vehicle. But, the fact remains if obtained in that manner, it IS a fraudulent title and is hard to defend in a nation of laws. Especially since there is a procedure to obtain title for a 'lost title' vehicle.

    Lastly, the tax process for a project, from scratch, vehicle. Like it or not, I understand the State's demand for sales tax on goods bought and used for the project. Buying on line does not exempt us from sales tax, it only changes how it is supposed to be reported and paid. However, the labor one puts in his vehicle should NOT be taxed, in my opinion, as Illinois DOES NOT currently have a 'service tax' or tax on labor.

    Further, I absolutely do not understand the requirement for a Bonded Title for vehicles constructed from parts. I do understand the theory of having a Bond for lost title, whole vehicles, but ground up builds are, in my opinion, a horse of a different color.

    The solution for all these issues is legislative pressure. The Legislature has provided "Regulatory Authority" to entities such as the Secretary of State and Department of Revenue to write their own rules (Regulations) that ARE NOT spelled out in the legislation that provides for their activities. So, the SoS and DoR due as they please.

    Do not expect the Legislation for Regulatory Authority to be amended....it won't be.
    But what can happen is that, if enough sensible, temperate, protest letters are received by our State Representatives and State Senators, they MAY ask a lot more questions and apply a bit of pressure to these State Offices to amend thier procedures to a more reasonable approach.

    Ray
     
  18. ride00007
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 46

    ride00007
    Member
    from Illinois

    I sure wish I knew how to even begin addressing the problem with the taxation on labor. I suppose it's just my single letter to a single representative. Chapin Rose is our local rep from this area and I know he listens well.
    The process is wrong. A family member is preparing to go thru this process and will likely surrender (copies) of reciepts for parts of approximately $50,000.
    I'm sure that their "book" value on this car isn't that high. So if he pays tax on that amount... fine. But when he spends 4 years of free evenings and weekend building the car... painting, upholstery, etc... all himself, then being taxed on the final assembly appraisal is just wrong. And then to have to follow the bonded title process is another smack in the face.
    Tax me... but be fair if I'm doing it the honest way.
     
  19. Edelbroke
    Joined: Dec 12, 2008
    Posts: 770

    Edelbroke
    BANNED

    How about get a post office box in WI. Tell your neighbors you have a cottage up here.
     
  20. Plowboy
    Joined: Nov 8, 2002
    Posts: 4,278

    Plowboy
    Member

    I have found it best to send in pictures of the car from several angles including an interior shot, an official appraisal by a used car dealer, and a cover letter describing the car and how you got it. I make 2 copies of each. When I go to the DMV they staple one copy with what goes to the SOS, and the other copy goes to the IL dept. of revenue. So far I have titled 2 cars this year and this process seems to have worked for both. One was an Illinois title and the other was out of state. I had both titles back within a month or so and I have not yet received a love letter from the Dept. of revenue telling me that I owe them money. Of course, this only works for a shitbox unrestored car.
     
  21. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,327

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    Hell I submitted only 3 pieces of paper all stapled together 1 the RUT 50 form
    2 A copy of a Bill of Sale and 3 My Check and yet they some how managed to lose my Bill of sale ,thats right they lost 1/3 of the documents I submitted.(This happens quite frequently I have been told) Now you submitting all these pictures and extra documents have probably just overwhelmed them to the point of surrender LOL
     
  22. R Frederick
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 2,658

    R Frederick
    Member
    from illinois

    Have you done a scratch built car this way? I need to go this route.
     
  23. ride00007
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 46

    ride00007
    Member
    from Illinois

    I realize this isn't the jockey journal but is Illinois doing this on pre 48 motorcycles too? Anyone heard of this happening with the bikes and if title transfer on pre 48 bikes is a manditory flag as well?
     
  24. uncledicky
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 15

    uncledicky
    Member
    from lyons il

    Hey,
    I have a 37 Ford body that I am going to radically customize. I have no title and no vin # and I live in IL. How do I go about getting a title? When I am finished the car will not have all the safety requirement like, bumpers, horn, and wipers.
     
  25. willowbilly3
    Joined: Jun 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,356

    willowbilly3
    Member Emeritus
    from Sturgis

    If you do a ground up build here and want to title it, you have to wait until it's "finished". I haven't got to that point yet.
     
  26. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,533

    Francisco Plumbero
    Member
    from il.

    Yes bikes too, the SOS cop said so. Wicked, all you need is a body and a BOS and you can do the bond thing, other wise you will have a 2011 model, that could open a whole nother worm can.
     
  27. ride00007
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 46

    ride00007
    Member
    from Illinois

    The 2011 thing... is that following the street rod title program?

    What if you have an old car where the frame numbers match... and they are apparently still asking some people to follow the bonded title process. Must the car be completed in that circumstance?
     
  28. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL


    I think you may be confusing different processes. Verifying VIN numbers on a '48 or earlier vehicle for which you have a title seems to now be necessary in order to get a new title. But if you have a properly assigned title for a whole car, the VIN verification should be the only title issue to be resolved.

    That is different than applying for a title for - a) a whole vehicle for which you have no title or - b) a vehicle you have assembled from parts.

    Aside from what issues you may have with the Dept of Revenue, either of the latter ( a & b) likely will require a bonded title.

    Ray
     
  29. ride00007
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 46

    ride00007
    Member
    from Illinois

    Maybe I am just confused... There have been several discussions regarding Illinois titles. I'd swear that several people have stated that this mystery enforcer will determine whether your title adequately covers the car... as in even if the title matches a set of numbers, if it appears incomplete, they still may require a bonded title. I mean how many 1923-1948 Ford project cars still contain all matching numbers? My 32 project has a good title that matches the frame. However the motor and tranny are long gone and of course there is nothing on the body. The last thing I want to happen is to have to get a bonded title because some crook of the state decides that my car is no longer complete enough to still be a valid car.
    I'll have to go re-read some of the other Illinois title discussions. Really not looking forward to the process...and this additional tax hike today is icing on the cake.
     

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