from my "schooling" MSD's add throttle response and mpg's not power... as for points.. cmon points are great.. those ya can fix on the side of the road. unless ya got an oscilloscope, solder, and a bag full of electronic doo-dads ya aint gonna fix that msd box.. I like points.. I don't like breaking down, but a set of points and condenser to throw in the glove box is like 10 bucks... cheap insurance.. of course i like drum brakes, points and stick welders... there cheap, simple, and in my case.. for the most part "idiot proof"
is that MSD strapped to the top of the battery? please move it to the firewall or under the dash.. strapped to the top of a box is not a quality install
I have run them on a dozen or so cars, and never had an issue with one. As long as you're smart about mounting it (not where it gets cooked by the exhaust), they are as reliable as anything else on a car...maybe more so. If you're running a completely stock engine, yeah, its overkill, but multiple carbs, large fuel pumps, high compression or boosted applications...I wouldn't be without one.
it will leave you stranded. we used to run them on our dirt track cars and rock jeeps, burned them up consistently. nascar guys burn them up too, they run them in tandem so at least one will finish a race.... street car-go hei, simple 1 wire hookup, clean, work fine for street cruising. JM2 cents i will add that msd will repair them cheaply if you send it them...
We had a thread on this several years ago. It explained some of the urban myth that MSDs die a sudden death. The thread stated that NASCAR "ran two in each car for duplicity" but it reality they run a backup because the boxes they use are not "potted", that is, the internals are open for inspection where the ones we buy have the internals sealed up with I forget, an epoxy or urethane? So, w/o the vibration damping of the potting material yes, they can and do crap out. FWIW
Seeing that traditional intake manafold, I guess it's okay to use. But I'd mount it someplace else if it was mine.
I see lots of people mounting them straight to sheetmetal, then wondering why they fail...put some of the rubber mounts on them, and they will last. I won't even get into the bad wiring jobs. People knocking them are usually the same people who don't like electronic ignitions. Sure, you can fix your points on the side of the road...electronic, you can't but don't have to, at least not nearly as often. Every car I have had with an electronic distributor got a spare module thrown in the glovebox, and I have yet to use one, after 25 years of driving. Its just as easy to wire your MSD so that it can be disconnected if it does fail, since most of the distributors being used don't need it to run. Running dual anythings...fuel systems, ignition systems, etc...makes sense in a racecar regardless of the reliability of the part. I'd hate to be the crewchief that had to explain to the team owner that he lost a race due to the failure of a $150 part.
Points are more reliable, but MSD-"not power"? You better go clue all those silly PSCA/Yellow Bullet types in.
I double wired the race cars I work on so i could sub a mopar LX101 (Standard ignition )box. I had the mopar style box mounted inside the cars with the plug already there. It was just a matter of unplug the super dooper box and plug in the LX101 back up. Twice in the last 10 or 15 years i had to do it plus once with a mopar gold box (Also made by autotronics and multistrike at low RPM) Twas most interesting. Difference in Et and MPH? ZERO! That means in case you are not aware difference in power ZERO. Multi strike will fire a semi fouled plug and the two and three stage parts of the boxes are real nice for staging but if the engine is set up right and jetted properly there is no other advantage. I do not like their stuff at all. Buy two get one that works seems to be the norm. I could go on but I wont. LX101 buy the way which costs about $37 is stable to 10,000RPM. SO far I haven't needed to go beyond that and dont exepct to in the near or far future. MAX ignition demand is in gear with brake on and pedel pressed . The higher you go RPM the easier to light it becomes. An oscilloscope will show this in a matter of minutes . Don
Look you gotta run an an ign system anyway right? I chose to run an MSD 6BTM on my blown flathead for a number or reasons. But mainly, it dumps timing as boost rises protecting the engine from detonation at full boost/WOT. Works very well never had an issue. I used a Mallory dual point and as already mentioned, I removed the trailing point and used the Primary point to trigger the MSD. Works great and the remaining point still look NEW after 5 yrs. Ran a digital 6 box in my MoPar small block. Same result there. I solved the problem of how they look easily enough - mounted the box under the dash and painted the red Blaster coil flat black for a factory look. Too easy and works too good. What's not to like? Simple, effective and looks stock. Rat
Yeah, these were some temperary problems that were going to get finished up while it was in hibernation. As soon as the weather gets out of the freeziing zone I'm finishing them up. I'll put the MSD box under the dash for a cleaner look, and get it out of the elements, Wont drive it until then. The heater core blew, so that's a band aid for the problem. (reminds me of many high school cars I've owned) I've got another to replace it, but again, gotta' get above freezing. or prime my Bug, or Falcon so I can swap spots in the shop.
Yep! I was setting the timing on my junk and wasn't aware of the bad boot on my coil wire until I grabbed the distributor to give it a twist. It sent a jolt from my hand through my feet. I jerked my hand back so quick in reaction to the poke that my buddy that was watching thought I stuck my hand in the fan...
Anything can leave you stranded. Perhaps it was build to be efficient, a well built/efficient motor can be a wonderful thing to drive. Good ignition is part of an efficient motor.
I have also have had a 6A for over 10 years, and have had no problems. I have been running CD ignitions since the late 60s. The two most common example was the Mark 10 Delta. I still have them on every vehicle with points and that doesn't have a factory HEI. These older CD units have failed, ( twice in 40 years), but it was just a matter of a switch selection to run the stock ignition. It was always the same component that failed, the SCR, so I replaced it with a component rated for a higher voltage, designed a larger heat sink, and have not had a failure since. The reason I like the MSD, is because it improves cold starting, virtually eliminates point oxidation, and it will fire a fouled plug. The thing I don't like about the MSD is that the components are potted and it can't be easily repaired. I wouldn't be without an MSD or CD ignition, or other HEI system on the street.
If you really want a hot spark... http://www.nology.com/products.html They are pricey. I put a pair on an older snowmobile and gained over a sled length against a buddy who was beating me before. No other changes, just the 2 wires. For the right car I'll do it again. Combine this with an MSD, phenomenal.
I have an NOS Mark 10 Delta that I want to install on my '67 Falcon wagon using points as a trigger, but it came without instructions. Would you happen to know which wires go where?
I have the Delta instructions on my web page http://www.selectric.org/delta/index.html (google should have found it for you)
Thanks. That just saved me a lot of typing. Just because an ignition system is capable of producing 60,000 volts doesn't mean it ever will, or ever should for that matter. When someone claims a "miraclulous" improvement just by making an ignition system change, especially for a street driven motor, it's probably because the old distributor had shaft and bushing wear, the centifugal advance wasn't working properly, the stock 20,000 volt coil was failing and it needed a new cap and rotor anyway. The new distributor cures all these mechanical issues and maybe this time they did a better job of setting the initial timing. And they probably threw in new plugs and wires too. No wonder it runs better, but it had nothing to do with replacing a 20,000 volt coil with a 60,000 volt coil. You want a 60,000 volt spark at your plug gap? Put on an old, used cap and rotor. Use the highest resistance plug wires you can find. Then use resistor plugs and open the gaps up to .020" more than what the specs call for. Can't guarantee a 60,000 volt spark but this will get you closer. The almighty oscilloscope shows all!
I have run them for a long time no problems, new one on the shelf now. I am lucky enough to know how to wire from scratch and read schematics so I don't worry about electrical stuff. I rebuild point distributors to use with them.
Ok about 3 pages of "They work great" but what did they do??? Did you gain HP? If you got a bigger spark did you open up gap? I am not going to say they do not work but 90% are being bought because they are one of those have to have products. Anybody have side to comparison on a well set up engine? When I used to read the mags and they did tests there was always the BS excuse after they had to print the actual results of no HP. I have a real 500hp BBC that had a MSD that went out. I bypassed and am now running points with an Accell coil and there is zero difference. I put on a D.U.I Hei set up and had to open up gaps and it cleaned plugs out. It all depends on what you start with. Also the race stuff is not the same as that almost empty 6 series box. But you gotta get one or you car will never run right!
So far it sounds like a case of "If it's running good, don't mess with it. I think I'll take all the advice about having the back up parts in the glove box. I'm learning a lot more than I expected. Thanx all...
The NASCABs run a higher RPM rev limiter chip in the second box. Just in case they need a little more RPMs to shove the guy in front of them out of the way... Except for Mark Martin he uses his to try to get around the guy like a real racer... Smokey
As far as the power thing goes I'll admit it's probably more of an issue with racing applications i.e. blower/turbo. Another favorite of mine are the Crane XR-i drop in conversions, their relatively cheap and have a built in rev limiter.
Love Unilites as I've never had a problem and you don't need no stinkin box. Yeah I know they'll be a hundred posts saying Unilities are a POS but they have worked great for me.
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