saw an article or something that mentioned nitrocelluleose lacquer. Other than the heath hazards of this paint why dont people still use it. Or is it just that, the health reasons? I buy this stuff for work and it is cheap. Of coarse I have to be very careful with it but at $23 a gallon it got me to thinking.
I love nitrocelluelose lacquer, it tends to oxidize and break down faster then the newer paints. But there is a richness and depth to it thats hard to beat. Also one of the more forgiving finishes to correct if you working in a less than perfect environment. My 2 cents. All finishes are hazardous to work with.
That stuff sucks! Nitro is the OLD lacquer, before they came up with acrylic lacquer, which had better color fastness, better resistance to sunlight, aging, abrasion, etc. Story time! I did the body and paint on a 53 Merc about 18 years ago. The owner was an older guy, who remembers "the good old days" and wanted the car finished in black nitro, just like the old show cars. I tried to talk him out of it, but he insisted. The car came out great, due to the fact that I had been taught some of the old-time tricks by my old boss, who learned in the 50's. In about a year or so, the owner was complaining about the finish. It was difficult to keep the shine up. It needed constant attention, polishing AND waxing. To keep these finishes nice, you really have to stay on top of them, waxing at least once a month. It is also a bit tricky keeping the finish from being streaky, or swirly, at least black. As the paint ages, it gets even more difficult. The paint also gets more brittle, eventually chipping VERY easily, and then cracking and spiderwebbing. Especially with thicker films that custom paint jobs often have. I offered to redo the car for him, in a 'sweetheart deal', with a modern concoction I use for the look of lacquer with the resistance of urethane. He didn't want to go through all the trouble. Switch to today. I recently had the opportunity to see the car again, and actually paint scallops on it for the owner. The paint definately shows it's age. Lots of spiderwebbing, and cracking, and he DOES take care of the car! The tape even pulled off some of the black where I masked it up. Lots of little blisters all over it...tho I suspect it is because the car is kept covered, even when it's outside. But in any case, a more modern paint would have been more resistant to this. The old lacquers DO look better in terms of shine and depth, but by being 'creative' you can recreate the looks of the old finishes with modern paint. If you DO decide to use that old crap, there are tricks to using it, esp. in the color sanding and polishing, which is a real bitch with that stuff!
You can speak for me, DrJ! I'll take ten gallons, please . . . Need a source name and address. The current crop of finishes can permanently damage your person or kill you for sure, but nitrocellulose never did anything beyond making us temporarily a bit happy/goofy and would often produce a "morning-after" headache. I'm not so sure that it wasn't just a bit addicting, however. We oldsters got started down that slippery slope with the entry-level drugs from Testors who made the nitro-based cements and paint -- called "Dope", coincidentally -- that we used to build model airplanes and cars. Parents were complicit in all this, insisting that we keep our bedroom doors closed to keep the smell out of the rest of the house. That we so obediently complied has to tell you something . . .
Application is the key to having a nice Nitro job. The deterioration you describe is the patina a lot of people want.
We need Nitro primer too! You guys do know that acrylic lac. will act like a paint remover over nitro. It will lift the old nitro lacquer right off the surface in a few days. I don't know if it works the same the other way around. And I don't know what wealers will work so you probably need to go bare metal fresh work with the stuff.
So THAT'S why my brain has developed a case of CRS!! (Can't Remember Shit!) Let's see ... your Mich Bickwood; right?
I sprayed some on a 30 model roadster about 20 years ago. The washington blue we used acrylic lacquer but for the fenders black nitro lacquer was used. It sprayed on more like enamel shot with thinner instead of reducer. Kind of like lacquer dryness with a sort of enamel finish. Really more like a synthetic enamel. I agree with the durability problem. At $ 23 a gallon though I would get some and expirement with some flattening agent for that suede look. A lot less than PPG DP products for sure. Man, gone are the days when you can get out cheap on painting. I can vividly remember my Dad ( in about 1979) raising hell at the paint store because the activator For Centari was $ 20.00 Wish I could find a jar of Murano Pearl. I loved that stuff.
And the enviroMENTALists are expecting us to thank them. Man I shot so much of that nitro. But that was before, now its all better
My only experiences with nitro finish are with musical instruments, so this may not apply, but IME, a nitro finish on a guitar is an extremely fragile and wear prone finish. There are benefits to this type of finish on a musical instrument, but for automotive use, I don't think it would be worth your time. It' seems to me that you would have to lay it on so thick that all the hand work between coats would be brutal. Of course, i'm sure the stuff you would use on a car would be thinned a hell of a lot less than the honey blonde color you would spray on a Telecaster, so i may just be talking out of my ass.
thanks for the input. I buy it from Delta labs in Ocala FL - you should be able to find it in a phone number search
I thought I heard that nitro-cellulose lacquer production had been banned in the US. I think the nitro-cellulose lacquer paint sold by Hybernia comes from Europe. They ask $100 a gallon for black and $150 a gallon for other colors. $23 a gallon seems too good to be true. My wife goes by Ocala occasionally, so I may ask her to check. I find it interesting the guys most enthusiastic about this are from California where it is illegal to spray either commercially or privately. A local body shop owner told me he could be heavily fined for using it here in Florida. I dont know if it is legal to do so as a private individual. Can anyone summarize the legality of nitro-cellulose in the US for both commercial and private use? It apparently is available for such things as musical instruments. Is this the same formula whatever the use? While fragile and not long lasting, it allowed good results very cheaply for amateur paint jobs in the day and could be easily retouched. At $2-$5 a gallon 50-60 years ago it was cheap enough to redo every year. Errors were easily buffed out. Adjusted for inflation, $23 is probably equivalent to that $2-$5 price back then.
Anything you apply must be prepped correctly. Nitro also takes time If you want a lasting job you really can color sand and polish til the thinners have boiled out and USE THE SLOWEST THINNER So unless it was some quicky spot job you haddto wait weeks And AFTER ALL WHO WANTS A CAR THEY HAVE TO RUD WAX AND TAKE CARE OF Dr J come buy and I'll let you see the stash!!!! We didn't get to that room today
is it nitro that smells sweet as candy? Back in H.S., I took a body shop class, and the teach had me shoot some cheap black paint on some truck wheels. It was so sweet smelling, went on really easy but thin, came out very deep black.
From what I have heard, body shops in Massachusetts were banned from using it more than a few years ago. It's more an environmental concern than a safety concern, as I guess they banned it due to the fumes it gives off into the atmosphere as it is sprayed and dries. I remember back in the 70's that Hemmings Motor News always had a number of ads from people selling nitrocellulose laquer. I think Bill Hirsch from maybe New Jersey had the biggest ads. I do know people who say they can still get it, but never asked the price.
I have some tan and cream acrylic lacquer left over from previous jobs that I won't be needing. I probably have 2 or 3 gallons of each. It's DuPont Lucite and very close to 38-40 ford colors.If anyone is interested I will let it go for 45 bucks a gallon. (I think it was over 100 bucks a gallon when we bought it years ago)
Here in the central valley of california, Modesto, you can still buy laquer. The catch is you can only buy 1 quart at a time and you must sign a paper stating that you are using it for art purposes. And that was at a auto paint shop but that was 3 years ago so maybe it changed again.
William Wolfr Co. in Cleveland ,Ohio sells European Nitrocellulose.It's actually acrylic modified nitrocellulose and is very high quality. I've used this type paint for years and it's beyond compare. If done right,it will last a long time and makes urethane look like junk.My 57 chevy was painted with it 20 years ago and it still looks like the day I paintd it. It doesn't crack if you put it on in the recommende d film thickness.If you let it dry thoroughly befor you rub it out,you wont have a problem out of it. At least that's my experience with it.
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