So have sombody ask Kurt, or the person who restored it. Then we will know for sure. The passenger door is a telltale sign.
^^I've always wondered about that too...I can't believe that whole dip was just filled with lead...from either Barris or Ayala...crazy
It's a conspiracy guys, the black one is fake, and the real one will be restored when the black one is sold for high bucks as the real deal
I've known Kurt & Amy for years...just great people. The work on the Alcorn Merc was done by Dave Conrad, another old friend. Dave told me he had to rebuild lots of the car, fabricate lots of sheet metal, etc., as much of the body - as you see in the previous photos - was eaten away by rust. Dave's done work on many of Kurt's other cars too...including the "Parisienne" He's one of the "unsung heroes" of great body work in the Mid-West, based in St. Louis. He owns a number of very cool rides himself, and drives them to Cruises in the area during the season. Pretty much works by himself, and stays in the area. He deserves much more credit than he's ever gotten. He's a "low key" guy and a super body/paint craftsman. <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 align=center sizset="55" sizcache="30"><TBODY sizset="55" sizcache="30"><TR sizset="55" sizcache="30"><TD sizset="55" sizcache="30"><CENTER sizset="55" sizcache="30"> </CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Jonnie King www.legends.thewwbc.net
not to stir up a shit storm hornets nest but i have a question if the pic of the car with the yellowish cover on it is as found why is that car in red primer? and the car on the trailer is im guessing after being found while being hauled to its new home why is it in black on the trailer? if these two pics were takin within a few hours of each other shouldnt the car be the same color in both pics?
I thought that the car on the trailer photo pre-dates the photo of the car under a tarp and is not a photo from when Kurt drug it home. Otherwise why would it still have remnants of the Peep Jackson paint layout in the photo on the trailer but not on the photo when it is under the tarp? And it looks like the driver side door and quarter were damaged (otherwise why would they go & hack off that chunk of the quarter panel?). That indicates that the driver door is a replacement, and the leading edge of the hole in the quarter panel shows that the 'door dip modification' was done with sheet and not all lead.
It seems weird to me that they would have gone to the trouble of making a panel for the quarter for the fadeaway and then just leaded in the door. Is it possible that someone who had the car was in the process of changing it back to having the dog leg and had removed the added panel from the drivers door?
The photo of the car showing the on the trailer is from the Pete & Jake book... it does not give a date, but the photo caption mentions that it was trailers after Ron Jones bought the Merc from Bill Hines... I think this was in 1972. And also this "The damage to the left rear quarter was inflicted, I think, by some sailors, but it serves to show how thick the lead in this fade-away was. Ron still has the car" I guess this put me on to making the comment about the lead. Ron Jones painted the car with the red primer to prevent surface rust etc. Kurt bought it from Ron Jones after the car sat outside under a tarp for years. Cleatus comments made me doubt.... but... In Pat Ganahls book there are two more photos (very small... and I still dont know whey these photos are so small in this book... but thats another story!) It does not realy show up to well in this scan. but if you look in The American Custom Car book from Pat on page 145. Then you can see what looks like rust or separated lead from the metal on the rear quarter panel, where the original body crease used to be. It really looks like that section was also done with lead on this photo... But its hard to tell, its a really small photo in the book. Somebody better ask Kurt about it.
The missing chunk seems to be too low to be part of the fadeaway but there does appear to be a faint line above it that would correspond to where the top of the dog leg would be. I would think, however, if it was all lead it would be a smooth transition that wouldn't show a line at the top edge of the dog leg. If it was an added panel the weld seam would have been leaded and if that lead was removed and then primered for protection the joint would show up which it seems to have done in this picture. Definitley would be cool to hear from Kurt on what it really was like.
Wow,I didnt think me noticing the door would stir it up,there I go again . I was just bringing it to others attention beacause I had never noticed it before last night. Sorry guys.
Nothing to be sorry about. I think these types of things are super interesting and a huge part of the history of these cars. How stuff was done is just as important as the fact that it was done in my mind. But you do have a knack for stirring up shit.
Oh man... K13 im bummed out now. I dont try to stir it up,I just really look hard at these early customs and if I find something that I think is worth mentioning I will speak up on it.I just like the whole truth to be told thats all.Maybe I shouldn't go public with this stuff.
LOL I was just kidding. It's great that someone brings these things up because it leads to a lot of really good conversation and information about these cars. Keep it up!!! These threads would get pretty dull if nothing new was ever mentioned.
Rik are you constantly scanning pics from old articles? There is a small pic of this car in the August 1977 issue of Street Rodder.
Jimmy Hervatin here, I saw the thread on the Buddy Alcorn Merc. I read the whole thing. I wanted to clear up a few things about the car. About 12 years ago, I didn't know Kurt at the time I was working on cars doing metalwork. Someone had told him about me, and he had just got the Merc. He asked me if I would want to do the major metal work on the Merc. I saw some pics of car and told him I could help him out. Before I talk about the car. I want you to know that Kurt is a encyopedy on these cars, and I don't think you could find anyone who is more of a authority on the old kustom cars.IMO. Last summer I got the opportunity to see his entire collections of cars and memobilabila at his new location. His collection is unbelieveable, he has his own AutoRama show. When he brought the car to me, it had been blasted clean of all the paint. To see the car in bare metal and lead work was breathtaking. Now Guys, these cars weren't given the name Leadsleds because they didn't have lead in them. The car has a tremeous amount of lead work. The whole grill area was all in lead, parts of roof, rear tailights, bumper fillers, ect... The car had been hit in drivers side. I guess the door was total, so they got a new used door and a section of a qtr.panel. I section in the Qtr. and releaded the seam you were talking about and yes the lead was about a inch and a quarter thick. On the doors they did fill the entire door with lead for the fade away. It made the doors very heavy. I did put a piece of metal in first before leading the door. I also did some rust repair around rear window and trunk sills and some other things I can't remember right now. Now before you guys all start bashing about all the lead in the car. Let's think back to what they had to work with. No, Mig welder, No Tig welders, No spot welders, No Bondo and all our air tools we have now. Their main tool was torch. That was the only way that they could weld these cars back together. So think about chopping a top on a Merc. welding across roof and not having to use any lead. After they did their lead work the only thing they had was lacquer primer and spot putting to get those cars ready for paint. So I look at it as these customizer were very talent and determined that they would get the job done. The only thing they had going for them that we don't now was rust free sheetmetal and supply of orginal parts. There is NO DOUBT that this is the real BUDDY ALCORN MERC!!! Hats off to Kurt for all the cars that he has brought back to life. Jimmy the Metalman
Thanks Jimmy!!! Very cool to know how it was done originally. I don't think any of us were questioning the pros and cons of the use of alot of lead just interested to know if that is what was done on this car originally and now we know. Awsome info!!!
In my posting above with the red primer photo in it I was not talking about the metal piece missing. Yes thats to low. Also not on the part missing behind the wheel opening, no just behind the door opening, in the remaining metal from the hole to the new fade away panel there is a separation line in the photo if you look at it in the book (the scanner could not pick it up since the pic had to be blurred to get ride of the printing dots.) But luckily Jimmy the Metalman came to the risque... and I guess we all where right here.... It is a new door, and it was filled with lead WOW! Thank you Jimmy!
I hear ya Rik the line does show up in the scan and I thought it would indicate a seperate piece rather than being leaded but thankfully Jimmy was able to let us know. I love the back and forth and theories from everyone on these issues as I find them facinating and it is even better when someone who actually knows like Jimmy comes along to give the right answer.
I got to talk to Kurt and look at his album on the car at a show in September. The passenger door still has the original lead in it to fill the dog leg and he said they actually found large screws inside the door to hold it on (and they are still there). The driver's door is a replacement that was on the car when he got it. They filled the dog leg on that one with metal, obviously, as Jimmy posted above. Another interesting, "Why did they do it that way?" thing is that the scoops on the side were originally just cut with a torch and the metal pushed in with the side trim hiding the cut edge. There were no filler pieces at all, just a flap of metal floating back there. They fixed that in the restoration, naturally, so now the scoops are filled on the edges as they should be. So far as the color not being exact and a few other details not being "exactly" as it was...Kurt's response simply is the original colors and the interior simply were a bad color combo. Looking at the pictures he has of all the original stuff, you'd have to agree. The interior was red and white which did not at all match the exterior. He picked a color he liked during the restoration that is still period "correct" even if it is not the exact shade the car was originally. As stated before, Kurt restores his cars to drive, which he does a lot. He goes to great lengths to restore and retain original pieces most folks would trash and replace, but also makes the cars real world drivable....which many of them never were in the first place. He drives the cars to the shows he brings them to, often cross country, and parks them out there with no ropes where everyone can get up close and personal. Lets any old schmoe sit in them and take in the history these cars are right from the driver's seat. He's the nicest car guy I have ever met and gracious as can be. For those that gripe about this or that not being "right," I say, which would you rather have...the car "right" sitting in some guys garage never to be seen again, or them beautifully redone and on the road being used, loved, shown and drooled over by the masses? I mean, really, the Rod and Custom Dream Truck just cruising down I-40 to a show? I'm all over that.
As to Stanlow questions about how many pounds of lead was in door. I would guess 25 pounds per door. Remember lead is very heavy and one stick doesn't go that far. As I said before to see the car in bare metal it was breathtaking to see all the metalwork that had been done and the lead work over it. Every panel on that car has been changed from orginal. My guess on how much lead was in entire car would be four hundred pounds. I know you all are saying Holy Shit!!! But think about how many gallons of bondo you would have in a car you built today like it. I am in no way cutting down the car. I think IMO the car is historic piece of craftmanship for that era. I am so glad Kurt found the car and brought it back to life for all the masses to see. Jimmy
I was just thinking how heavy a lead fishing weight is. Then you take an area that big and fill it full of lead. I`m guessing you would have to layer it in in stages. How thick can you go per layer, then do you have to let it set(how long) before the next layer goes on. Just wondering, you don`t know until you ask. 400 pounds, just think when people change there flatheads over to Hemis in 32 Fords. And thats just on the front end of the car. Thanks for all the info. Have seen alot of Kurts cars over the years including the Alcorn Merc. You have to admire a guy like Kurt for owning and saving ALL those cars and having the resources to restore them over the years. Must of been an honor to work on a car like the Alcorn Merc. Knowing the history in it. Seeing how it was built back then. Do you have any build shots of the car. I`m sure everybody here would love to see them. Thanks again.
Man, that's another great historic thread ! I can understand the authenticity point of view, but WTF !! are we kustomizer or restorer ?!?! yeah , i would cry with you if that baby had been bagged and flat blacked or metalflaked by some kulture Mofo, but we're far from that kind of "interpretation" just my 2 cts...
Do you have any build shots of the car. I`m sure everybody here would love to see them. Thanks again.[/QUOTE] Yes, please!
Yes, please![/QUOTE] I would love to see some build photo's of the Buddy Alcorn... or any other Ayala Custom car as well. But unfortunately not to many photos where taken, survived, or shared as far as I know. The two photos of the Buddy Alcorn Mercury unfinished in primer from the Dan Post Blue Book are the only two I have ever seen.
It sure was great to see this car in person and it was great to see another example of Ayalas true craftsmanship.
The Roadster show was the first time I saw it. What an incredible color. The purple in your face but yet somehow subdued.
The Jalopy Journal
