What motor fits model A no cutting firewall, full hood

Anyone got pictures of the SBC and stock uncut firewall on a 30-31?

 

22RE with a cam and sidedraft webers, then a 5spd.

 

When I was fitting my flathead in my coupe I took some measurements from a y block just to see how much it "didnt fit" and I was suprised it was as short as it was! Turns out it would fit in my 30 (no cutting the firewall with a rails) by moving the radiator forward between 1-2 inches. The im not big on moving my radiator so If I ever throw a Y block in that thing Im going to use a marine front cover and adapt a BBC water pump. I will also have to do some pan and harmonic balancer modifications as well but all that should shorten its overall length by around 4-5 inches allowing it to fit perfect even with a fan.

 

I'll bet it's impossible

Anyone want to measure the distance from the rad to the firewall on their stock 30-31 A with stock hood length?

 

I almost think if you don't want to cut the firewall, don't want to spend a fortune on a motor, and want one you can actually find without searching for months, you have to go with a V6 - either a Chevy 4.3 (265), Buick 3.8 or even the Ford 3.8 (I think it was) motor. A GM 2.8 would probably fit too, but they're not much more power than a flathead. The 4.3 will probably be cheapest to build because it shares a lot of parts with the SBC.

And we had an '88 T-bird with the port EFI 3.8; the car was around 3400 lbs, and the motor was plenty for it, it was a fun little car to drive, and got pretty good milage too.

 

I agree with rustynewyorker ... my 31 sedan ...

 

and it is still for sale ,,, by the way.

 

I'd say just get your hands on whatever motor you can with some decent ponies....best bang for your buck is a small block chevy...like jeffrey james said...the earlier chevies are cool too.

If you're not chopping the truck, I don't think it's a big deal to recess the firewall a bit if needed. Go over to an automatic if you don't have room for the pedals.

I wouldn't be sacrificing power for the sake of saving myself from recessing the firewall. I imagine those smaller hemis are hard to find in running condition, and you're talking money to build them, or to really beef up a V6 with a blower possibly.

It's all in what you want really. Wanna go fast, rethink your design or get out your wallet! haha

-Steve

 

Another option that might make things a little easier would be sliding the front crossmember ahead 2 inches...just have to buy a longer hood...Rootlieb makes killer hoods and could do you a really nice stretched hood for a fraction of what you'd be into with making little motors go fast.

 

You can walk on the wild side..and put in an underpowered V860


Like mine.....

 

What about an iron duke. It is a four cylinder Chevy engine . They look cool and I think there are some speed parts made for them. I do not have a clue what cars they came in but a friend said they were an easy swap in a model A. I am not a big fan of v6s. I think Hot Rod had an article about how v6 was trendy for a while in hot rods but for some reason they died. I think Hot Rod said they were sorry they supported the v6 trend.

Some also told me that you can use a stock model A gas tank,
if you use a flat head.

I am sure somebody knows a lot about iron dukes on this website.

 

dude.... you really need to find a differnet board,nothing you have talked about in any of your posts is on topic for the hamb

 

I believe there's a 3.54 gearset for the V8 banjo rears, should be reasonably freeway-friendly if you go the flathead/3 speed route.

 

So much information and so much of it wrong.
I have two Model A sedans a '30 and a '31. I was like you and even though I have more room inside the sedan than your pickup I didn't want to cut the firewall if I didn't have to. The '31 has a 283 v8 and the '30 has a 3.8L Buick engine. I worked as hard as I could to get the v8 in the '31 without cutting into the firewall and I couldn't do it. I am not saying that it can't be done but I have NEVER seen it done. And if you did it would be so tight I don't think I'd want to have to ever work on it.
To answer the original question the distance from the radiator to the firewall on an original with a Walker radiator is 27", but you will find that the harmonic balancer will hit the crossmember before the fan pulley hits the radiator by about an inch. As for moving the radiator forward (Besides looking dumb) is a lot harder that it sounds. You have only about an inch before you hit the light bar which does more than hold the lights it is also the cross brace for the fenders. Then all-ya-gotta-do is buy a longer hood!
As for the Daimler Hemi, not quite as rare as hen's teeth but even if you do find one realize that it is 2.5L only about 150 cubic inches, slightly larger than some of the modern four cylinders.
The 3.8L fits just fine without modifying the firewall but there are problems with that too. You have to find a carburetor and manifold for it and we had a lot of problems finding headers for it. And your choices of transmissions are limited to the BOP family. But is is more than adequate.
A lot of people especially the "original" A guys put a 2.0 L Ford in, for some reason they stay away from the 2.3, but also remember that that engine was only offered in the Pinto in the early 70's and are pretty thin on the ground.
Even though I have a sedan and can move the seats back there are times when I wish I had that four inches back. A model is just not a very big car!
If I was going to start over from scratch I think I'd consider the 4.3 Chevy, probably the most engine that will fit into an A without cutting the firewall or some other radical modification. And the most parts available because so much is common with an SBC. I would also consider the GM 3.0, as far as I know about the largest four cylinder currently made. It is available new as an industrial engine and in the marine version is rated at 140 HP. And fits Chevy bellhousing.

 

dont knock down little engines. a stock 3400 (same 660 block as the 2.8 gm v6) and compatable with t-5, 200r4 - anything in a blazer/s10 produce nearly 190 hp/205tp stock. with a little playing and tuning you can top 200 pretty easy. and, all at 1/4 the weight.

 

According to my Floyd Clymer Model A book, grille shell to cowl flange: 30 25/64", say 30½"

According to my own measurements, the firewall projects past the cowl flange
top half: 3¾"
angled middle bit max.: 4½"
bottom legs: 2¼"

That leaves 26" clear if the radiator sits flush with the front of the hood.

That assumes the back of the engine is flat and doesn't have a big hemispherical bellhousing attached to it. That's the good reason for my intended wheelbase stretch, to allow the firewall to be lowered relative to the engine and remain recognizably intact. The real reason is because I like the proportions better when the A-pillar is nearer the middle of the wheelbase.

Edit: these figures are for a '30/'31.

 

"The 3.8L fits just fine without modifying the firewall but there are problems with that too. You have to find a carburetor and manifold for it and we had a lot of problems finding headers for it. And your choices of transmissions are limited to the BOP family. But is is more than adequate."

The 4.1 V-6 Cadillac 4-barrel manifold is a nice aluminum junkyard piece and probably cheap, too. Mine came off an Eldorado. Better than the Edlebrock I replaced, in my opinion. I used unmodified block-hugger headers -- don't know what brand (Sanderson?), but they're still working 15 or so years later. Along with the bolt-up Turbo 350. The factory finned turbo valve covers were $22 each as I recall.

 

You already have a little over 200 cubic inches with a stock model A engine. All you have to do is make it breath better and have better gearing. Mitchell makes a synchronized transmission plus an overdrive unit that are drop ins. They offer choices on gear ratios for both the tranny and the overdrive.

I asked my friend about the iron duke. They are a six cylinder engines that are missing two cylinders. They came out in 62 Novas. They are less than 200 cubic inches. They increased the cubic inches and changed the head design a few years after 62.

 

Flipping the firewall on a 30/31 will not lose you as much space as you might think. The coupe my dad & I built has a flipped firewall & I am 6 foot 1 & I can comfortably drive the car. Usually my bladder gives out before I want out to stretch. There is no package tray in the car so the seat is all the way back to the back of the inside of the body. It is also a column shift car.

Check out the build thread, lots of pictures for you to see the firewall & floorboards/trans hump: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348159

I know the car is a SBC & you don't want one, but the same space gained could be used on another engine just as easy. We also run a mechanical fan & I can get my hand in between the firewall & the distributor.

 

Weasel,
I appreciate your enthusiasm for this little jewel of a milll, but where would I find one on the left side of the pond? I did a quick search and most of the links that came up were for restored and pricy sports cars and sedans (Jag-ish saloon cars). Were they ever imported to the US in large numbers?

I've also seen some hemi Japanese V8s that look very similar and are probably more plentiful, but can remember what brand cars they came in. Later, Gary

 

31 stock A, ( uncut firewall and a stock hood fits), with 4.3 chevy v6 and a powerglide. With the glide, the stock flat floors are usable. These trucks are very small inside, I used a swing pedal for the brake and a GM tilt, it still came out very tight. The V6 has enough power to lite the tires, but lacks the v8 sound. If you go this route I'll be glad to share the details.

 

Lets see some pictures so we can see how you did it.

 

I'd like to see pictures as well.

 

I think its "do-able"..especially in a 30-31.and remember that fire wall lends itsself to being fliped

the 28-9 not so easy, or so i thought, so i just ripped out the original and went with whats on the market..(little borring maybe but it works)
But after setting back my firewall 3 or so inches i see where i could have backed off of that a bit..the only area of concern than on a 28-9 and possibly the 30-31's would be the sbc distributor issue..there you more than likely will have to deal with some Firewall mod to make room for the distributor..other than that the 30-31's , you may not have to do much but deal with the back side of the block where it comes closer to the original firewall, and the distributor as i said...or just flip the firewall and have at it
but anyone saying they have to lengthen the frame to fit an sbc in an A, needs a new tape measure

im running a hood (original length) and a mechanical fan too

 

I have a flipped firewall in my '31 and it was very easy, I thought we were talking about an unflipped stocker?

 

yeah, i think he was.
I was just pointing out that the stock wall on a 30-1 can be flipped, so its still all the original steel.

 

The Ford Y-Block is 28" wide. It is the 221-302 SBF that is only 21" wide.

 

My 60 keeps you with most traffic. 5 speed or overdrive would help keep rpms down.

 

4 cyl turbo, t-bird or Chrysler,or the Iron Duke.

 

what he said was this....---->what V8 will fit in a 30-31 ford that is running a stock hood and stock uncut fire wall?

I think that rules out any 4 banger