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Stroking a 1959 283 SB. Has anyone done it?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by stroupedesign, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. stroupedesign
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 182

    stroupedesign
    Member
    from Tustin, CA

    I read somewhere that stroking a older casting like the 1959 283 could cause some issues?

    Anyone know any differently?
     
  2. chubbie
    Joined: Jan 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,336

    chubbie
    Member

    are you going to use a 327 crank?? all you will end up with is a 307 GM built them for a few years, not many were impressed. maybe you will use a 400 crank now you'll have a 326. think pontiac. no one was happy with that either
     
  3. stroupedesign
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 182

    stroupedesign
    Member
    from Tustin, CA

    I was going to find a kit. I'm assuming it would be a new modern crank.

    I've heard about the 327 crank swap. Not sure if the "kit" crank would be identical though.

    I'm trying to justify the cost vs. the performance benefits and make sure there are no issues.
     
  4. so if you go to 327 bore and stroke you will have a heat gauge that goes up as fast as the spedo

    get the 327 small journal block if you want to go that way
     

  5. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,530

    aaggie
    Member

    Not sure why you would bother with the 283. SBCs can be built from 262 thru 383 cubes using mostly off the shelf parts. Running 350s can be had around Houston for $300.
     
  6. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,973

    Dyce
    Member

    The early 283 blocks didn't have much room to swing a longer stroke in. If you look in the old Hot Rod Mag. they used to do it. The front of the block won't take much of a counterweight. I think to do it, and keep the balance, you would need to use light pistons and rods so you could modify the counterweight. You could even drill lightening holes in the rod pins on the crank to add to the material you can remove from the counterweight.

    I'd just get a newer block. I've put a 350 crank in a small journal 327 block. All I had to do is turn the mains down. Without checking the numbers nobody will be able to tell a '58 and newer 283, from a small journal 327.

    Don't beleive the people talking about 307's and 283's being mutts. They were from the factory because of poor flowing heads and low compression ratios. You put some good flowing heads on these engines, and be carefull not to over cam them they can have good power.
     
  7. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,467

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As stated the factory did the 3 1/4 stroke in the small bore block in 68-72. They used a thin casting for the heads that weren't very good. The problem with the 3 7/8 bore ( plus up to .060 overbore) is that you can't use very big valves and the pistons are probably hard to find if not custom only. With 57 cc comb chambers, you will be close to 11:1 c.r.
     
  8. fab32
    Joined: May 14, 2002
    Posts: 13,985

    fab32
    Member Emeritus

    A 327 crank will NOT swing in an early block. The casting at the bottom of the cylinders is flat instead of radiused like the 327's. I put a 327 crank in one when the 327 first came out and the weeks worth of grinding to get the counterweights to clear the lower end of the block was a big pain in the ass. It WAS a kick to shut down the hot 283's and 301's but the thrill was short lived as shortly the place was over run with 327's.

    Frank
     
  9. Bass
    Joined: Jul 9, 2001
    Posts: 3,354

    Bass
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    Small journal / early 327 crank that is in my '56 265.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It can be done if you really want to do it. Don't let the nay-sayers bring you down.
     
  10. stroupedesign
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 182

    stroupedesign
    Member
    from Tustin, CA

    Aaggie... got the motor cheap, so I'm gonna run it.

    Dyce... modified heads are part of the plan for sure. What would you recommend in regards to a cam?

    Bass... what did yo have to do to get that configuration to work? Is it worth the effort in regards to performance?

    Thanks guys!
     
  11. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,973

    Dyce
    Member

    Heads depend on the cubic inches you are planning on running. I'm asuming you are running flat top pistons. For a 283 or 307, I've used the 283 power pack heads, cut the intake seats for 1.82 305 valves, pocket port, and angle mill .062 with an additional .030 flat mill (makes the intake fit nice). This gets you down around 53-55 cc chambers.

    For a camshaft I like to run Speedpro cams. Just because I've always had good luck with them. I don't remember the number of the cam or the specs. I can look in the catalog though.
     
  12. djmk52
    Joined: Nov 15, 2010
    Posts: 14

    djmk52
    Member
    from norfolk va

    use a cam from chevy,,the .012 .018 early vette solid lift cam,don't stroke it,,I used a stock 283 in a race car,, back when 350's were just hitting the wrecking yards,,I out ran the bigger engines and nobody would believe me about the size of my engine,, power pac heads, match port,balance it, forged pistons, and hang on, it will scream
     
  13. rover
    Joined: Aug 24, 2010
    Posts: 35

    rover
    Member
    from pomona

    I plan on stroking my 57 283. Using early small journal 327 crank, 307 pistons, and power pack 56 265 heads I am getting on a trade (I hope). I heard about the grinding of the block too. Not sure about the cam either. I will be running a 4deuce weiand intake with a t10 trans. I need cam suggestions too. It should be fun. When will people stop suggesting 350s 383s 400s and vortec heads. Too common and boring. We are hambers! Old school baby! Finned aluminum and white walls forever!
     
  14. stroupedesign
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 182

    stroupedesign
    Member
    from Tustin, CA

    Let me update some info and give you guys a little background. This will be the first time I build a performance motor. I've rebuilt two engines to stock specs prior. So I"m super nervous about screwing something up, or spending a bunch of cash on something that doesn't work.

    This engine will be installed in a custom frame with a turbo 400 or 350 trans and a 1928 Ford Tudor body. I'm trying to build a nostalgic rod (a little ratty with the original patina for now)

    The engine came out of a boat and had a 4bbl cast intake. I'm not sure what type of cam it has. How do figure out the type of cam it is?

    I've attached a photo of the head. The casting is #3743056. There are no accessory holes in the heads which presents a problem for mounting "things".

    I like the idea of aluminum heads, just not sure it will look right in a nostalgic/rat rod (I guess I could paint them to match the block)

    The Power Pack Heads are cast? Yes/No?

    I appreciate all the input!
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Power Pack heads are cast iron and have a rectangle with a diamond point on it


    as much as i like 283s...i have one in my `36 and am installing one in a `28 pickup project.....if i wanted more displacement i'd just go with a 327 or 350. why go through all the work and expense when it has already been done for you?
     
  16. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hell why not just buy a 307 short block and rebuild it and stick in a mid 80's Z-28 cam or the 30-30 Duntov if want to adjust valves every week along with a set of power packs like Dyce suggested and call it a stroked 283.

    I'd just bore the 283 enough to clean it up, install some good pistons and a good cam with the power packs with some work on the heads. A stock 350 will still most likely eat your lunch in a similar car but you will have the cool factor of a 50+ year old chunk of cast iron between the rails.

    Anyhow it's your time and your money do what spins your wheels. It doesn't have to make good sense labor or cash wise just so it makes you happy.
     
  17. stroupedesign
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 182

    stroupedesign
    Member
    from Tustin, CA

    Here's what I've found for sale locally:

    These are $100 pr.

    1962 - 1967 - 3782461 (461) - 327 Double Hump heads - Pair

    1963 - 1967 - 3795896 (896) - 283/327 Power Pack Heads - 2 Pairs/sets

    1962 - 1967 - 3884520 (520) - 283/327 Power Pack Heads - Pair

    These are $40 stripped:

    casting number 3795896 Info as follows 283 Power Pack,63-65 and 327, 250HP Corvette, 62-64 and have 140/60cc ports

    Will any of these work?

    Thanks again, I totally appreciate the feedback
     
  18. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Hey Bass, are the counterweights cut down on that crank? Seems as though if you use a 1967 or so 283 block, they are notched at the bottom of the bores for the counterweights. Hmm, pre-lude to the 307? LOL. Anyway as I remember, if you tried to grind a 283 for a 327 crank to fit you ran a real possibility of going into the bottom of the water jackets unless you had the late 283 block. You van tell at a glance, date and notches. Just some ramblings from an old fart. :D Oh, and I had a couple 283's that didn't take any crap off of 350's. :cool: Lippy
     
  19. all those heads will work on your 283 , assuming the 461's have 1.94 intake valves

    $100....that's a good price on the 461's if they are good , but not so on the 520 or 896... i'd say they are worth $50-$75 a pair . i see guys asking that for them , but don't see them sell. i've been trying to sell a pair of 520's for $50 with no takers. if you come to my house you can have them
     
  20. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Stroupe, if those 461's aren't cracked, you better get em for a hundred a pair. :D
     
  21. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,467

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sorry Frank, I forgot about that on the early blocks. i was trying to remember, could you run 1.940 intake valves on the small bore? It seems like you couldn't.
     
  22. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 8,560

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    1.94 heads on 283s are no problem.
     
  23. rover
    Joined: Aug 24, 2010
    Posts: 35

    rover
    Member
    from pomona

    will i be able to grind on a 57 283 to make a 327 crank fit? how much clearance should there be between the block and crank?
     
  24. Lots of good idea not good idea folks on here.

    The 307 that the factory put out has several things going against it from the git go. Poor heads, low rpm cam and the worst of all is bad bore to stroke ratio.

    With a decent set of heads and a better cam shaft they could be made tolerable. But you still don't have enough bore to drive the stroke. You will have the sam basic problem with the stroked 283, it will make a bunch of low end torque as compaired to a stock 283 but it won't be a good revver.

    It did get done in the '60s, it was work but it did get done. it was never as popular as punching a 283 to 301 'n' change. The 301 being heavier on bore with the shorter stroke would rev until a came apart.

    Never the less if I were to build myself a stroked 283 I would go this route.

    Forged flat top pistons, you'll probably end up bored .030-.040 if it is an unmolested long mile engine just to clean it up. I guess cast pistons would also do.

    283 power pack heads, you can go a little over size on the valves if you must. If it were mine I would do a 'beaner oversize, you don't know what that is, to get it to clean the cylinders better. Blend the bowls.

    Duntove cam (.030x.030) if you don't mind adjusting the valves. Crane makes a good blueprint cam in that configuration. If you don't like adjusting the valves Crane also makes a blueprint cam of the 300 hp 327 cam that would also work well with your small bore mill.

    A single 600 cfm 4bbl should feed it fine. But if you must go totally old school and want to spend the bucks look for a 2x4 with a pair of WCFBs on it.

    It will never run like a punched 283 but it will be unique, the longer stroke coupled with the small bore will give it a unique sound and it should give you one hell of a hole shot.

    A single 4 bbl should get you down the road.
     
  25. Dyce
    Joined: Sep 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,973

    Dyce
    Member

    Not to make you nervous or anything, but you need to really look over a pair of heads good when you are buying.

    1)If the valves are in them, they looked like they havn't been cleaned, and the guy says there not cracked he dosn't know. You need to strip the heads bare and have them clean to crack check them.

    2)Look at the condition of the valve seats. Now days the unleaded fuel makes the exhaust valves sink into the head. You should put hard seats in the exhaust anyway, but I've junked heads because they were to far gone. The intake valve seats are not a wear issue, but if someone is sloppy putting guides in the valves will be sunk.

    3)Look at the rocker studs for signs of wear from rockers. If the rockers were wearing to the side on the stud that means the pushrod slot is likly worn as well.

    4)And while looking at the top of the head you should be able to tell (if the valves are out) if the guides have been replaced. If they have been replaced it will save you $$$ having new guides installed.

    5)Then last but not least look at the flanges for the head bolts out by the spark plugs. The chevy heads like to chip away there.

    The heads would all be good choices. The 520 castings would have the tapped hole in the side for a coolant sensor. The 896 and 461 dosn't. I would get the 461 heads if it was my choice. The power pack head cores for so many years have been worth scrap price. If you don't get the 461 castings, I'd find the machine shop you plan on dealing with and see if they have any power pack heads. When I had a shop I'd give a costumer a set to make room on the shelf. They just don't sell. Even if you do have to pay for them, they should take care of you and replace them if they are cracked.


    I really hate to say this, but if it was me I'd scrap the Marine block. The marine blocks don't run antifreeze. The antifreeze not only raises the freeze point but it also stops rust. Cast is funny when it rusts. The rust will make worm holes. if this block is from the '50s or even the '60s the odds are there is something wrong with it. If not rust someone could have forgotten to drain it.
     
  26. Bass
    Joined: Jul 9, 2001
    Posts: 3,354

    Bass
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    No. You'll have to cut down the counterweights on the crank and re-balance. See photos above.
     
  27. stroupedesign
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 182

    stroupedesign
    Member
    from Tustin, CA

    It looks like stroking the motor will be a big hassle, and expensive! So that's off the table.

    I'll go look at the 461 heads and see if there are any problems with them. They are camel humps so if I'm not mistaken they have no mounting holes. Yes/No?

    Adjusting the valves constantly doesn't sound fun so I'll go with a milder cam.

    Soon as I look at the heads I'll post an update.

    Thanks everyone!
     
  28. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,207

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    I hear scat has a 4" small journal crank...... so atleast with a 327 some people are doing some serious stroking, there was a 62 mag i read they bored and strokes a sbc out to 460 cubes.

    As for making a 307 go for it, in the early days they did that a lot and had some competitive motors, the problem with the image of the 307 is they put low compression and limp unhardened cams in them from the factory, and never made a hot model

    I really want to build an over 400 cube 283 for a rail, if i ever get a few projects done first
     
  29. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Back in the Good Old Days. When a 283 was the biggest Motor you could get from Chevrolet, People who were running in what would correspond to Top Fuel today, bored and stroked 283s to what they called a 352. Maybe the same as the 350 we all know. But in '59 in the dragster lanes, yes somebody had stroked a 283. Today I can't think of why I would do that. But I don't run SBCs much anyway.
     
  30. Astrochimp
    Joined: Sep 15, 2009
    Posts: 191

    Astrochimp
    Member
    from NE Mo.


    Adj the valves is due to solid lifters. Run hydraulic lifters and a modern cam.

    Remember the big hp numbers people throw around for 283's and 327 is advertising hp, not a true measured number as done today.
     

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