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tips on installing a Ford 5.0 & five speed in a Shoebox Ford

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by vtx1800, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,709

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My wife's 49 Ford either needs a bunch of tinkering with the original flathead motor and drivetrain or a substitute powertrain. She wants three pedals and I'd like to keep a Ford in a Ford so thought a Mustang 5.0 with a five speed would be a decent transplant. Any hints/tips/or stumbling blocks with this transplant would be appreciated. (I've searched but didn't find anything on this particular swap but if I missed it, just say "you dummy --here it is" and give me the link). The biggest problem I am concerned about is whether the shifter will end up right in the seat, I want to keep the original seat and if the shifter is too far back then I will have to look at other alternatives. The last Ford I worked on was my 63 Fairlane (got that one new) when I swapped out the 260 three speed for a built 289 with toploader four speed back in 69. I suspect some things have changed since then. Thanks in advance for your suggestions and tips.
     
  2. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,092

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    If you are worried about the Mustang 5 spd (T5???) shifter location, you could use a M5R2 5 spd out of a mid 90's F-150. The shifter is much further forward on the MSR2 and it will not interfere with the seat.

    Nothing wrong with a 302, it should be a fairly straight forward swap. Personally I would be looking for a 351W or FE (352 or 390), but I like to make things more complicated than they need to be.

    Good Luck.
     
  3. igby
    Joined: Aug 6, 2005
    Posts: 109

    igby
    Member

    302 with a reverse oil pan from a bronco and oil pump. fomo has all. u need for around 250.00 . everything should drop right in.
     
  4. Chris 50
    Joined: Feb 1, 2002
    Posts: 443

    Chris 50
    Member


  5. tjsr19
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 130

    tjsr19
    Member
    from Lincoln NE

    I bought a 5.0 wiring harness and computer plus the broken trans for 150 dollars out of a 93 f150.
    I took the trans to the trans shop to have them look at it and rebuild it. they told me that it was fine and that a freeze plug came out of the top by the shifter. He told me this before he even looked at it. Sure enough we walked out to the truck and one of the plugs had fallen out. "I think they put them there to install stops." He told me to put a new plug in there and run it.
    I went to a junk yard the next month and cut the fire wall out of a 91 f150. I guess I just cut around the master cyl and pedals. I took the hanging pedals and both the master cyl and clutch cyl all for 50 dollars. I haven't used any of these parts yet as the car is still off the frame. But this is the plan. I will likely carb the motor but I don't know.
     
  6. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,709

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Chris 50 you have answered the biggest question that I had, will the shifter fit but unfortunately the picture wouldn't open and like they say "a picture is worth a thousand words". I'd like to stay with the floor pedals, and I think that is what you did. Do you have any pictures of the brake/clutch install plus clearance for exhaust (and what exhaust manifolds did you use?), the current flatty has Red's Headers and there is a lot of "stuff" packed into that area.

    THANKS!
     
  7. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,709

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    TJSR19-thanks for the info on the F150 tranny--most pickup trannys have a "granny" first gear, is it safe to assume that the one your using has the super low first gear?
     
  8. Chris 50
    Joined: Feb 1, 2002
    Posts: 443

    Chris 50
    Member

    If you check my profile page, the pic is under the "cars I've had" section. Not the greatest picture, but you can see that everything fit with the shifter that I made. The only thing is that on my car, I put the seat as far back as it would go, and tacked it in place so it was not adjustable. If you move the seat up, things will get a bit tighter although I think it would still work.
    For the brakes I used a dual master kit from someone...Fatmans maybe? The stock pedal worked with this kit.
    For the clutch I used a Tilton hydraulic throwout bearing assembly and 7/8"? bore cylinder to activate it. It's roundy-round stuff usually. I did this cause it seemed easier than trying to cobble together some mechanical linkage. I made a mount for the cylinder on the outside of the framerail and connected it to the stock pedal with threaded rod and heim joints. I'm sure I have some pics, but I'll have to see if I can dig them up at home and get them posted for you.
    The exhaust manifolds were stock from the 1970 Mustang. I did end up putting a remote oil filter on because of clearance to the front crossmember. Igby is right about needing a rear sump pan for the same reason.
     
  9. tjsr19
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 130

    tjsr19
    Member
    from Lincoln NE

    I thought that it would but I talked to the f150 guys and they said the 302 trucks drove like a car and needed 410's in the rear to make them tow
     
  10. RDR
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,480

    RDR
    Member

    put a 5liter from an 85 T Bird into a 50 Ford...used an AOD tho'...do remember having to cut the front crossmember and boxing it it for pan clearance but no problem with the oil filter.. ended up a nice installation and a super driving car !
     
  11. tjsr19
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 130

    tjsr19
    Member
    from Lincoln NE

    I poked around on line and found this
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The gear ratios are:
    First 3.75
    Second 2.32
    Third 1.43
    Fourth 1.00
    Fifth 0.75
    [/FONT]
    I have a 410 rear end what do you guy think of this set up I dont know how 1st gear will act.
    Thank you
     
  12. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,709

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    tjsr19 & Frozen Merc -- Just goes to show an old dog has to learn new tricks, I had no idea that late model pickups had a "car like" five speed, thanks for that info,

    Chris 50 I -- checked some of the pictures in your profile and it does look like the shifter comes back further than I would like but.....would it be possible to put a dog leg shifter (like they used on tri five chevies when you put a floor shifter in them) to move the lever further ahead??

    My idea is to pick up an old ratty Mustang and canabalize the car for drivetrain etc, it never hurts to have extra parts does it.

    Thanks to all of you for your assistance and interest--really appreciate it!
     
  13. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 9,484

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You can do some swapping of parts and get the S10 tail housing on the Mustang T5. That has the shifter as far forward as a T5 was ever made.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    A set of stock 5.0 headers & H-pipe are pretty close to a good fit on an auto car - not sure about manual. Some tweaking required, but do-able, I think.

    There is also a rack & pinion mod out there (or used to be) using a cavalier(?) rack, I think.

    Good combo.
     
  16. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    What tranny is that?

    The Mustang T-5:
    1st 3.35
    2nd 1.93
    3rd 1.29
    4th 1.00
    5th 0.68

    The M5OD from the F-150
    1st 3.91
    2nd 2.24
    3rd 1.49
    4th 1.00
    5th 0.80

    Here's a good ratio source.
    http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/Ford/Ford_Transmissions_Main.htm#5 Man
     
  17. tjsr19
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 130

    tjsr19
    Member
    from Lincoln NE

  18. Ford Guy
    Joined: Jan 9, 2010
    Posts: 53

    Ford Guy
    Member

    That's going to be a real deep 1st gear. Multiply the 1st gear ratio by the rear-end ratio. Anything over 10.0 is going to be deeeeep!
     
  19. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,092

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    I run the M5R2 in my '51 F-1. First is a little steep, but not bad (of course I have a 3.08 gear set in the back which helps too). But then again, I used the M5R2 to replace a New Process 435 out of an early '80s F-250, and first in the that thing was 6.69:1. Good for rock crawling and parades, but not much else. So my sense of a deep 1st gear may be warped a bit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
  20. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    The M5R2 is the version that's used in 4 and 6 cylinder Ranger and Mazda pickups. Different bellhousing pattern from the SBF V8.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  21. 59 brook
    Joined: Jun 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,016

    59 brook
    Member

    summit sells a "long" brand shifter which i got for the 5.0/t5 swap for my 59 wagon . handle curves towards dash and maybe a lot easier then changing tailshaft
     
  22. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,709

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is one of the few places in the world you can ask for help on a problem and get a multitude of possible solutions, ain't this a great country?
     
  23. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,092

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    Yes it is. Now post pics and tell us about the solution that worked for you. :D

    That is incorrect. The M5R1 was used behind 4 and 6 cylinder Rangers and Mazda's. The M5R2 was used in F-150's behind 300's, 302's, and 351W's so it has the SBF bellhousing pattern.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  24. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,709

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Now I have to get off my duff and do something, I've been checking Craigslist for suitable donor cars, wish I knew more about buying totaled cars, that might be a good alternative too.

    Thanks Again!
     
  25. tjsr19
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 130

    tjsr19
    Member
    from Lincoln NE

    I have a 4:10 rearend. I am not sure how to do the math. Can you be more specific.
    I guess I need to find a new gear set. But I would like to find out how to do the math. do I just take the mazda first gear and multply by ......?
     
  26. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    To find the overall ratio you multiply the ratio of the trans gear times the rear axle ratio. For example, 3.75 x 4.10 = 15.375 / 2.32 x 4.10 = 9.512 ...........with that rear end and the first gear ratio, you won't need first gear.....

    Ray
     
  27. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Bear in mind the stock flathead gear ratio could be as low as 12.78 and that was in a 3-spd with large RPM drops between gears. The flathead wasn't a stump puller, and a 5.0 will have more power available, so any lower may be wasteful...

    Tire size will play a role in effective gear ratio too, of course....
     
  28. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,424

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    I think a 4:10 will be a bit too much w/ a T5. I put a T5 in my 57 Ford w/4:11 and 1st gear is done before I'm thru the intersection. I'm going back to 3:50. As far as shifter location I think it should work out. Being vertically challanged I need the seat almost all the way up. The shifter arm just touched the seat in 2nd & 4th. You could also try a T5 out of an S10. The shifter location is much farther up.
     
  29. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,634

    ems customer service
    Member

    here a pic of a 351w with a tremec tko (service trans for t-5) you can see the 3 shifter positions firewall is still stock in this pic.

    i would keep the engine and trans together as you have putting it in the car as a matching set is going to be easier than switching stuff around, i had fits with little brackets and minor pcs that almost caused me to go to a auto.

    the shifter may be back far but the 50 ford does have a deeper distance from the firewall to dashboard face so you may be ok,
     

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  30. 34toddster
    Joined: Mar 28, 2006
    Posts: 1,482

    34toddster
    Member
    from Missouri

    EMS I'd sure like to see the clutch linkage in that set up
     

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