Torqueflite Behind Non-Chrysler Engine

I have heard that some folks in the 60's (mostly A/FX) were putting these behind other engines, such as Chevys (other?), before the TH400 was around. I was intrigued by this and wanted more info. I have never seen any adapters available for something like this, and was wondering how this was done.

I would love to run an early push-button Torqueflite to be different!

 

you are most likely thinking about a clutch flite, basically a torqueflite with the front housing machined off, using a clutch and manual shift bell housing, omitting the torque converter, machined plate was bolted thru the front pump and bolted to a bellhousing. Ive never seen one used with converter on a non gm installation, but It may have

 

No, clutchflites were a bit later than that, early seventies.
Yes, torqueflite's were popular behind GM engines, they are extremely strong, and easy to work on, which is nice, but they don't require much work. The TH400 was pretty stout for a GM prooduct, but more difficult to work on. Several companies made adapter plates to bolt the T/F up to various GM combos. I haven't seen any of that kind of thing around for a long time, but that doesn't mean its not out there.
You need a pre '65 trans to make the push button shifter work easily, although it can be adopted to later transmissions.

 

Advance Adapters still makes a couple of T-flite adapters, primarily intended for 4x4 swaps, though you could use them in anything. http://advanceadapters.com/

They make one version for IH Torqueflites, which have their own unique pattern, and a couple more for Jeep T-flites, which may be the same as Chrysler... I don't know offhand.

Bendtsen's has nothing for Torqueflites so far as I can tell; WilCap has early Hemi & Poly adapters, but that's it.

 

Thanks for all the info so far guys. I exchanged e-mails w/ Bendsten's and I told him what I was looking to do, and he said anything is possible, but it would be custom and cost a few bucks.

I have a book on altereds by Steve Magnante and was able to find one of the sections of the book online in an article:

http://www.maxchevy.com/tech/2007/ii_9-nova2-2.html

Apparently, there was once an adapter available by C&O; here he uses a Wilcap adapter. As Homespun91 mentioned, Wilcap makes one for the early Hemi and Poly. Could he have used one of these and modified it?

That being said, I must disclose what I am looking to do [hopefully I won't catch too much shit & negativity for this]. I am interested in putting one behind an early Rocket.

Why??:
1) I want to get rid of the Jetaway.
2) I would like to run an early Dual Range Hydro or go to a manual transmission. I had read that I would need to drill the crank for a pilot bearing in the '57 Olds 371 to run either of these. At this point, I don't want to deal with this (engine in car). Please correct me if this is incorrect.
3) I can't bring myself to run TH-350/400, although if it comes to it I will.
4) I have never heard of it being done and I like to be different, and like a challenge.

 

Would it be possible to use a Rocket-to-Chevrolet adapter, and then a Chevrolet-to-Torqueflite adapter? I've seen this done for different cases, primarily flatheads. Of course you would need to work out some details for the converter, which would have a fair amount of space between it and the flexplate, possibly 1 1/2" -2".

I would have to think that this would be an expensive way to go, unless you found the adapters used.

 

I run the early iron push button T/F transmissions. If you should decide to go this route consider this: The rebuild kits for these are 3 or 4 hundred - compare that to the later 727 Torqueflites and you'll see them (727) are a TON cheaper. Also since they are still actively raced there are a TON of parts availability for them 727's.

Don't get wrong - I really like my Iron Torqueflite's - but you gotta want them to put up with the higher costs and very limited parts availability. A more sensible option is to go with the later 727 pushbutton or convert an even later one. My 2 cents.

 

Answers to your "Y" questions:
1. Yes
2. Yes, and the flywheel for the dual range needs to be be counterbalanced to the crank. Both of these are not expensive, and flipping the engine over will allow the crank to come out without disturbing the pistons, heads, etc. While you have it out, you can change out timing chain, timing cover seal, and rear main seal, not to mention mains and rod bearings if need be. Also you will need to install new dowels on the rocket integral bell housing. The dual range engines had the dowels on the integral bell housing, whereas the Jetaway has the dowels on the transmission bell housing. Guess you could put the dowels in the dual range hydro bell if you wanted to.
3. Ross racing does do these conversions, but are not cheap.
4. I would think Ross could do a torqueflite conversion since it is close to being a TH400 at the bell housing. They remove the bellhousing and attach their bell to the front pump mounting bolts.

My vote: #2. I have done this on a 60 371 and it worked out fine.

 

At one time my roadster had a clutch flite in it with a sbc. I traded all that for a milling machine and a band saw and a Lotus 907. I don't think Bob ever did anything with the Clutch flite and could put you in touch if you are interested. Not much good as a street transmission. Or not good at all. Don't do it. PM me if interested.

 

dickie harells 69 alluminum 427 camaro had a torqueflite in it alot of other ss/afx / doorslammer type cars ran the TQ

theTQ is a seriously heavyduty trans easy to rebuild and was plentyfull

 

Save your time their is a place out here that builds th350,c4,c6 with torqueflite guts in them. you can get pretty much any gear combo you want, billet drums, shafts and anything else you could imagine.

http://www.protransracing.com/

 

I had thought about something along these lines. I have heard of people going Olds/Caddy to flathead, then flathead to Chevy. This is definitely worth seeing what is out there. Thanks.

Interesting. I was thinking of a 1962-65 Torqueflite. What year did they switch from iron to aluminum cases? I definitely want to run an aluminum case, as I am also after lightweight. Thank you for the advice and the cost is definitely something that will sway my options.

I was hoping you would chime in. I have many bookmarked threads on Olds transmissions & rears and you offer some great info. Regarding option #2, I recently had the pan off and did the oil pump, cam, timing chain, etc. So, I would hate to tear back into it at this point. One thing to consider is to just drive it w/ the Jetaway and do the swap when I eventually do the bottom end. The car will be run heavily on street night at the local drag strip.

Option #4 may be worth looking into (I am sure they will think I am nuts!). Thanks for the info.

 

I am looking to do "something" after the winter. Right now, I am just planning and will begin to source parts. I do want to talk to Bob in more detail about what kind of numbers he is talking to do the custom adapter, but I will start the dialog when I have a bit more cash on hand (few months out). Thanks.

Nice! I will check search for that car. You are the second one to mention they are strong and easy to work on. Good stuff, thanks.

That is interesting! I checked out their website, but most is under construction. This is another option to consider and will have to get them on the horn to discuss. I like the fact that they seem to specialize in lightweight components. Thanks for the lead.

 

Neat write up! http://dickharrell.com/About/

 

Pushbutton torqueflites are not confined to early, iron cased tranny's. They ran pushbutton's right up to 1964, and the only real difference between them and later units is the parking brake mounted on the tailshaft. You can simply use a later tailshaft. Art Carr also told me that using push buttons on the later tranny's was not a problem, it's just a matter of rigging the cable correctly. I've not done it, this si just what Art told me, and he's gone now so i can't get him to back me up. But if he knew it, others do as well.

 

if one is willing to use a non pushbutton and use the 904 i have had them in my shop with chevie bolt pattern in postal jeeps. the 904 isnt as strong as the 727 but i have used them behind fairly strong 340 small blocks with good results.

 

Imperial services makes a kit to use a pushbutton shifter on a later 904/727

"1962-1965 Pushbutton, Console, and Column Shifter Conversion Cable Kits

These cable kits allow the use of your stock '62-'64 Pushbutton or '65 Console or column shifter with a '66-up transmission. All conversion kits feature our Heavy Duty shift cables with Binder Wire Technology. Includes Heavy Duty cable; stainless steel lower bracket and shift lever, lightweight spring for valve body detent, all required hardware, and comprehensive installation guide.

* Pushbutton conversions require sending your pushbutton control unit, shift cable bracket, and park lever to Imperial Services for modification. Accepted for conversion anytime, but unit received between November 1 to March 1 eligible for a $200 discount. Allow 6-8 weeks for pushbutton conversions."

 

You call bob, tell him what yur doin, he loves differant stuff and he,s the champ, he does not care for bellybutton small block stuff but he,s the best the more weird the better he likes it

 

I'm an old motor whoarder, reading this I've discovered I'm a transmission whore too!
I have a rebuilt push button Clutch-flite with a 1 1/8 input shaft rated to 1500 hp
a rebuilt 56 push button torque-flite
a rebuilt turbo 400 plus 2 core transmissions
A new B&M Hydro and a 55 Cad Hydro
I don't know where all this stuff comes from

 

I'm not an expert, but I think it was right around 1961 or so. When you said "early" T/F - I thought you were referring ot the Iron one. I think you're better off with the 727 variety as you noted. It'll be totally obvious when you look at it - the "early" t/f has a factory bolt on bellhousing and the entire assy weighs right around 4 thousand pounds ( they only weighed 1/2 that when I was younger, but apparently they have recently gotten much heavier).

The later ones CAN all be converted to pushbutton operation, but like most things - it'll cost ya! If you go this route - you may want to find out up front what all costs are associated with that upgrade. Also they made the (mopar) 727's in at least 2 versions - a small block version (bellhousing is different) and of course the Big Block version - possibly more - that's all I know of.

 

This is some good info! Nice to know that the 66+ T/F is an option. Regarding the tailshaft, I saw conversion kits for the 62-64 T/F that convert the ball and trunnion U-joint to a slip-yoke style.

 

I'll keep this in mind as well. I had no idea these were available with the Chevy bolt pattern. I remember reading an article many years ago where a 904 was built up and was lighter than the 727.

 

Yeah, if push comes to shove, that Turbo 400 would be the way to go.

Is he on the HAMB? Perhaps he will chime in if so...

That's a hell of a collection! Shot me a PM if come across a 62-64 T/F!

 

Thanks for the info, man. Sorry bout that - I should have been more clear. In the article from Steve Magnante, they use a small block version with a Wilcap adapter. Apparently, there was on old C&O adapter that used the BB version.

 

Lots of good stuff here!
One nit to pick...I had a few IHC's with 727's, they were stock Mopar units with an adapter. And a truly weird ring gear!

 

I reject your picking of the nit.

Up to around '69 or so, IH used the 3-speed cast iron Borg-Warner unit that was used by Ford, AMC, and others under different names. Somewhere around '70 they switched to the Torqueflite. Maybe they used adapters in the early IH Torqueflite days...dunno.

All the IH Torqueflites I've personally owned or seen ,though, have the dedicated IH pattern, which is freaking huge in diameter. Makes it tough to put an engine on an engine stand; the stands usually need to be modified/extended. As a matter of fact there was an IH Torqueflite lying on my garage floor until about two weeks ago. Mine have all been '72-'80 vintage.

 

You had a dual coupling hydro in the Bonneville, which is a slush box complared to the old dual range hydro. Taking nothing away from the TH400, but if you were to race a Bonnevillle similar to yours in power and weight, but with an old dual range hydro from a 55 or 56 Pontiac, your turbo hydro equipped car may not win in a 1/4 mile. Dual range hydros have the best hole shots around! And that is where winning races start.

 

REgarding the statement that 904's aren't as strong a 727's, that may be true to some degree, but John Cope, who builds some awesome torqueflites, says most racers are using the 904's over the 727 in their cars due to lighter weight and less drag. So they must be strong enough if they're runnung them for modern race applications. He said most times they'll put 727's in their street cars, which is what I did, went from a 904 in my truck to a 727.
The 904 will do the job for most anything you can dish out to it.

 

Anyone know if there is anyway to use the push-button set-up on a 904? I am interested in the Chevy bellhousing on the 904 in the Jeeps.

Found this:http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=441996&highlight=torqueflite+adapter
I'll bet this is an old C&O adapter, because it looks like it is for a BB T/F (bolt in 12 O' clock position).

 

I just noticed that the cable kit posted by ajmopar states 904/727.