Need advice on Rust Converter & Epoxy Primer..

I need some advice. I need to do this as cost friendly as possible. I'm not gonna media blast anything due to $$$ I'm gonna strip everything as best I can, use a rust converter, then epoxy prime.
I'm gonna start with the frame and underside of the cab.
With "Cost friendly" being the only option other than a product that works, what rust converter and epoxy primer fits that bill? I might use a chassis paint over the epoxy if I decide I want the frame a color other than black.
Anyone? Whatever I get as far as the rust converter and epoxy goes, I plan to use on the sheetmetal(fenders,hood,...) as well.
46' K3 Binder LongBed.......
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There may be some information for you within this thread.

Oh and as far as the Picklex talk... it's Picklex20 that you'd be interested in.

 

Por15 works great

 

I use Ospho or Jasco Prep & Prime and PPg DP series epoxy primer and it works fine, but be aware that not all epoxies are the same and some cannot be used with these phosphate conversion coatings. Read the tech sheets or call and ask first.

 

"Ospho" is a product that's sold at Ace Hardware. Costs around $11 per quart here in Hawaii, so its probably a buck or two cheaper back on the mainland. It converts the rust from an iron oxide to an iron phosphate (turns black) and you can paint right over it. I used it on my rusty ass old '78 F-250 and it works well, lots better than the spray on stuff the auto parts stores sell.
BTW, I like your screen name, reminds me of my favorite band.

 

That's because it's my favorite band.

I will check Ace. Like the price.

 

I use SEM Rust Mort and the PPG DP epoxy primers.

 

Por-15 is awesome, it's not the cheapest thing out there but it does a great job!!!!

 

Por-15 has to be top coated, it will turn ash grey once its out in the weather.

 

Metal prep from ppg is way better then ospho and comes in a quart size,ppg dp sealer is big bucks if you are on a budget,house of kolors epoxy 2 part primer is a good deal,comes in 2 gallon kit,part a and b,and is a great price,not to mention its thick as hell,you can hose the stuff on and bury anything with it,,oh just keep in mind part a is yellow,part b is blue,,,it makes lime green when mixed,,,

 

I stripped the car first, wiped everything down with ospho, repaired any rust, and then used epoxy primer. The only place I tried to "convert" rust was where I couldnt get to to fix the rust, or where it was very light on the inside of a panel.

Good luck , I know the feeling of trying to be a cost friendly as possible!

 

Please explain why you think the metal prep is way better than the ospho. Just curious. I have used the phospho etch and it worked well. The Phospho Etch is sold at Home Depot and was about 14 bucks a gallon but you dillute it extensively so it goes a long way.

 

osph leaves a thicker coating,if left to dry on accident it gets messy,metal prep does not have those problemss,wipes on and off easy,let dry and it does not build up ,,my opinion,,

 

Thanks for the additional information. I understand what you are saying about the thicker buildup/coating. I have just never used the metal prep so I can't compare.

 

I've used POR-15 and that stuff that O'reilly sells in a white plastic jar, it might be called "rust converter". Both have worked well, but that POR-15 is some wicked shit. I have nothing but good to say about it.

 

I just blasted the frame of my car and coated with PPG two part, direct to rusty metal primer. It works like POR-15 except it's a two part epoxy, you mix only the amount you're going to use, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper. I ordered from my local hardware store for $100 for a two gallon kit. It sounds like it could be comparable to the House of Kolor product prost34 mentioned above, it's thick, about the consistency of peanut butter. I mixed the two parts together and then thinned it with lacquer thinner to thin it out enough to spray. It laid down nice and dried to a matte finish. This product can be left unpainted but like POR-15, it will turn milky if exposed to UV, I don't think there'll be a problem under the car. It' made to paint outdoor items like water towers and bridges, stuff hard to prepare down to bare metal.

I posted about this product a while back:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443619

Here's my frame right after I primed it:

 

Can the Ospho be thinned out? It would be nice to put some in a spray bottle to squirt into tough to reach areas like inside the doors, down in the kick panel cubbies. I'm not too worried about it building up thick. I will brush it on carefully so that it's not too thick. Then I'm epoxy priming over it. Thanks for all the advice guys.

Maybe someone can give me some advice on this too.
Other than a piece of sandpaper and rubbing with my fingers, any ideas for getting at the inside of all the fins of the grille? Please don't say sand blast it. I'm working hard on the grille. It was banged up pretty good but is looking pretty sweet now. I welded the seam down the middle to strengthen it as I used a hammer and dolly to shape it back up. I still need to weld the lower portion and do some more shaping on it but it's close.

 

I know you don't want to hear it but the easiest way is to blast it. If you can swing it buy a cheapie syphon feed blaster from Harbor Freight or some other local big box store in your area. Trying to sand all those small, enclosed areas are going to take forever.

 

Any of the conversions we've been talking about could handle the oxidization in the fins. If not sprayed, it can be brushed, wiped on, etc.

 

Why dont you just clean the chassis and underside with a grinder and wire wheel, you will know for sure that no rust is left once done. I dont trust those rust converters, rust is rust, and any moisture buried deep in the metal will stay there an keep corroding under your nice fresh paint. For the paint side of it I would use Lechler 2 pac paint, can get it in any colour, can go straight onto bare metal, can be bondo'd over as well.
Good luck with your project
Cheers
Leeroy

 

I quoted myself as some don't bother reading. I AM NOT GOING TO SAND BLAST. I DO NOT HAVE A COMPRESSOR GOOD ENOUGH TO HANDLE A BLASTER. I OWN A HF BLASTER BUT ONCE AGAIN MY COMPRESSOR CAN'T HANDLE THE JOB.
I AM USING WIRE CUPS/WHEELS/FLAP DISCS.... TO CLEAN EVERYTHING I CAN REACH.
I want the rust converter for the ares that I can't get too. Look at the grille. This is how I've been doing every part of the truck. Frame, grille, cab, fenders.... I will strip them like i did the grille but there are gonna be areas I can't get too. Those are the spots I want to treat with the converter. FYI, blasting isn't gonna get every spot either. Only way I can think of would be some type of dunk tank. But my budget won't allow anything other than me trying my best. So here I am asking for advice.
Again, i'm not gonna spend a dime on having it blasted.
Sorry for the little rant.

 

Many of the converters must have water to cure, so they in effect suck the water out of the metal in order to do the job...

My machine shop that did my engine bore last time around charged me $20 to hot tank about 15 odd and end parts that I was going to hand sand/scrub/scotch brite etc... maybe something to look into, save me loads of time and aggravation for the cost of a pizza.

 

Iron Maiden,

I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for, as far as additional information. This thread, along with the one I posted as a link, are good "starting" points. I'm learning about this stuff, too, but I don't expect people to bend over backward for info they might not even have yet. That's why we need to go from a starting point like this, do some additional homework and come back with that content.

I did Google the term "thinning ospho" and came up with a lot of repetitive stuff. Much of what's mentioned here. I did like this thread for the discussion they were having.

Anyhow, you don't need to blast it. Hell, I just did a blast job and it sucked! However, my roadster is miles ahead of where it was previously. I still went at areas with the sanding disk too and will be using some converter on it. Keep an eye out for my thread on prepping thin metal. I'll be updating it sometime next week...

I'm at the point, now, where I want to get all the minute rust with a product that doesn't have the embrittlement characteristics opsho has. Picklex 20 is sprayed and immediately wiped and since my metal surface is now pretty much clean I like the ease of it.

(I'll add, I haven't used it yet... so I don't know anything but what I've read.)

I read this while searching too...

&#8220;OSPHO&#8221; is a good rust converter, comprised of (75%) Phosphoric Acid, Sodium Dichromate, Wetting Agents (Surfactants) and Extenders (pH <2).

Rust converters are solutions or primers designed to be applied directly to a rusty surface to convert residual rust on steel surfaces to harmless and adherent chemical compounds. The most frequently used formulations are based on Phosphoric Acid, which causes the rust to be converted to a firmly adhering, and protective, Iron Phosphate film.

Rust converters can be simply brushed or sprayed on the surface of the metal, after all loose scale, oil, and waxes have been removed. The temperature of the metal should be between 50 & 90oF (10 - 30oC), and (if used outdoors) there should be no risk of rain for 24 hours. Within 20 minutes after application, the converter will turn any rust it touches dark grey or black. The reaction is usually cured after 24 hours, but longer if the ambient humidity exceeds 75% to 80%. The acid will eventually cause hydrogen embrittlement*, so use the minimum etch time that removes all rust.

The iron phosphate coating is not very thick, and not very durable, so some additional protection is still required. Rust converters are formulated to be used as primers, which should always be followed with a compatible topcoat. Unlike traditional coatings, the surface must not be sanded.
As with all acids, use rubber gloves and splash goggles, no matter how weak the solution. When thinning acid, add acid to water. Never add water to acid.
To avoid contaminating the stock solution, never pour used rust converter back into the bottle.

Skyco &#8220;OSPHO&#8221; is one commercial solution, as are DuPont &#8220;QUICK-PREP&#8221;, and Sherwin Williams &#8220;METAL PREP&#8221;. Check the individual product MSDS, noting the constituents, and acidity. The higher the pH, the quicker the acid will etch the metal.

* All acids contribute some hydrogen to the metal structure. This weakens steel by a process called hydrogen embrittlement. I&#8217;ve heard it claimed (uncomfirmed) that if you bake the metal at 400F for an hour after acid cleaning, this will drive out the hydrogen and prevent embrittlement.

 

Thanks. I'm gonna check my local Ace for the Ospho and give it a try. I can buy a couple spray cans of the stuff Eastwood sells for the area I can't brush on.
I will post back with some pictures and such. Thanks for the advice.

 

POR 15 , isnt such a great product ...eventually moisture will get underneath it and bubble it up ...I was a huge fan of it when I first used it, but it does break down I have wheels around here that I sandblasted and POR'd , they have never been driven in the winter and they started to blister now there is a fair amount of rust under the POR I have to reblast them and they wont be getting POR thats for sure!...I have had much better luck with decent prep work and epoxy primer...its cheaper and much better protection than POR will ever be.....

 

check SEM Rust Shield corrosion control coating for a budget solution, it's $65 a gallon

 

Koolkemp, perhaps the reason you had bad results with POR15 is because you preped the parts first. So when you sandblasted the wheels you gave it nothing to bond to, then it seperated, and rust began to form on the wheels where the POR15 seperated from them. POR15 is supposed to be painted directly onto rust, that's what its designed for. I've had it on a chassis for almost 20 years with no complaints.