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zepher valve springs

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by quickgene, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. quickgene
    Joined: Aug 7, 2009
    Posts: 141

    quickgene
    Member
    from duluth mn

    After some thought my best bet is to switch to the one piece retainers like KS Fats says & keep the longer Zepher springs. That should be a staight up swap not a McGiver cluster#$%K deal.

    As shown in the VanPelts pic above all I should have to do is switch parts 614 & 617 in 51-53 pic for part 614 in the 49-51 pic correct ?

    Every thing else should be the same correct ? Thanks Gene
     
  2. quickgene
    Joined: Aug 7, 2009
    Posts: 141

    quickgene
    Member
    from duluth mn

    I guess that 1/2ass swap won't work my valves are just to short to use the long springs. Rather than buy longer valves and one piece retainers I think I'll just find the proper 2.20" spring for my setup. I hear stock 2.20" springs will work fine with my Max 1 cam. Gene
     
  3. What are the length of your valves -- can't imagine they are different than all the other flathead valves (length is determined by deck height, lifter length and cam location).

    As long as the keeper groove is in the same place as all the flathead valves I've ever seen, then just replace the spring retainers for $30 and be done with it. Reds has the stock style retainers . . . or you can jump up to Moly ones for about $60.

    I'd keep the Zephyr springs and fix the retainer problem. Again, the Zephyr springs will be compressed to around 2.00 in length -- and there will not be a spring bind problem.

    Dale
     
  4. quickgene
    Joined: Aug 7, 2009
    Posts: 141

    quickgene
    Member
    from duluth mn

    I got this great info from JDI on the ford barn:

    The valve length measurement is from the head to the keeper groove.
    the early valves are 4.75" long, late valves are 4.54"
    the early springs are 2.48", late springs are 2.20"

    My valve measures 4 1/2" from the head to the begining of the groove.
    I guess the 4.54" measurment JDI talked about must be to to center or groove.
    I don't have any but the older vaves, they must be almost 1/4" longer to the groove.

    I've heard sbc has offset keepers fit 11/32 ford valves that may give the spring more room. I don't think my builder or I would risk engine failure on setups Frankenstiened together. Gene
     
  5. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    "They are 2 7/16" or 2.48". I needed 2.200". "
    You are confusing free length, installed length, and imaginary length (2.2)
    The stock length is posted above. Zephyr, installed, 2.13"
    They interchange with Ford, which jas same installed length, 2.13, til 1948 and also '49-53. They cannot readily be used on the '51 or 2-'53 valves. That late hardware has different spring length and incompatible retainer hardware.
    All the info is above.
    Whether the late valves can be adapted reasonably is questionable...at least you would have to cut grooves lower and with proper dimension for '49-50 type keepers.
    Groove location is certainly wrong with '52-3, I believe overall valve length is also a tad shorter with different stock lifters to compensate. From memeory, I installed adjustables when I last worked on one of these long ago and I think I had to jack screws out considerably on the Johnsons.
    Get the dimensions right, then see what valves you actually have. I think swapping out to '49 valves or the commonly used discount Chevy exhaust valves is the way to go. The chevies are close to right, I think maybe a shim or two is needed to put on Zephyrs/Fords.
     
  6. I'm with Bruce . . . get a set of high-quality aftermarket valves - designed for the more common retainers and keepers and use the Zephyr springs. This is really what just about all of us run -- tried, true and not too expensive.

    You can go to Reds Headers and pickup everything you need . . . at a reasonable price. The Chevy valves are just a tad longer which usually helps with a performance cam with a smaller base circle. If it was mine, I would not screw with the stuff you have . . . kind of a bastard child if you ask me.

    If you're totally on a budget, then you'll have to find some stock style springs -- not sure if anybody makes performance springs for that setup???
     
  7. quickgene
    Joined: Aug 7, 2009
    Posts: 141

    quickgene
    Member
    from duluth mn

    My old springs are 2.20" free length. The new zepher springs are 2.48" free length.

    I'll ask my builder what way to go. Maybe new chevy valves and retainers are the way to go. I never thought about the johnson adjustables having the screw the adjuster bolt way out to reach the valves. I hear the 52 valves I have are shorter. Thanks Gene
     
  8. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Installed length is what you measure. Free length is essentially meaningless, just the relaxed length. Both Ford through 1950 or 51 and LZ have same installed length, 2.13.
    Post 1950 springs are entirely different because location of retainer is different and cannot be compsred directly to the others. Can't use the Zephyrs.
    Ron Holleran has experimented with the late setup in rods...he shims them for extra pressure since normal LZ or hotrod springs cannot be used.
     
  9. quickgene
    Joined: Aug 7, 2009
    Posts: 141

    quickgene
    Member
    from duluth mn

    I went the the see the builder today with what parts I bought. If turns out somehow I got the impression that he told me my springs were 2.20" free length. They are not, my old springs are 2.48 free length. The valves do measure 4 1/2" from the face to the beginning of the groove. That should be the short 52 valves if there is such a thing. I also had one piece retainers allready not 2 piece rotaters. That's why he said they are not rotaters. Because they are not. He did a mock up with the new Zephyr springs and with the installed spring height he got a 54 lb spring pressure. That should be fine.

    He checked my old valves against a chey valve and the groove is in very close to the same spot but the total length is longer on the chevy valve.
    There only about a 1/4" space between the valve and the block. So there is no room for longer valves anyway. So I can keep my valves. It apears that with the parts I have now it is perfect. I don't know how I got the idea that I had 2.20" valves in the first place. Other than he looked at the 52 valves in the book and found out they had shorter springs. Thanks for the help-I think I'm ok now Gene
     
  10. Whew . . . all that posting work . . . and you actually have something that will work - already in your hot little hands! :D If you're going to be running the Max 1, you might want to shim the springs a bit to try to get to somewhere around 65 - 70 on the seat. I imagine you'd need to have an installed length of 1.980 to 2.00 . . . but he'll have to measure/test them.

    Note: Yes, the Chevy valves are a bit longer -- I believe they are 4.910 or so. Lots of folks run them because they are inexpensive and the extra length does help with a hotter camshaft -- takes up some of the increased clearance that resulted from the smaller base-circle cam.
     
  11. blown49
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,212

    blown49
    Member Emeritus

    Choices of valves for flatead Ford drawings I made. I still have to weigh the original Ford valves and am awaiting a 185G spring from ISKY to do some drawings of the Manley valves as alternatives.

    Jim
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  12. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 785

    Vergil
    Member

    Great drawings Jim, much appreciated.

    Vergil
     

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