what is the biggest factor in you not taking a metal shaping class?

Taking a basic class is probably the best thing ever did as far as saving money in the long run as well as personal development in working on cars. if you have not taken a class, whats the largest reason why, money? future equipment purchase? location?

 

Location for me - closest I've found was in Calgary at SAIT (about 200 miles from home) but it's weekday evenings for a few weeks and just not practical. I keep telling the wife that the next trip to Disneyland I'll be at Lazze's the whole time!

Steve

 

Mostly because western Montana is like being on the MOON! Instead I surf the internet and this site alot for metal working threads. And a ton of trial and error. John Kelly is a good source.

 

Its just the money issue for me. I will eventually be able to go to one. Just wont be anytime in this decade.

 

Anyone get some of Ron Covell's DVDs? Been to one of his classes?

Would you recommend them?

 

class+traveling+lodging+food=mucho denero

 

After going to many metalmeet events, I believe you can learn more at an event than at a class. The events are usually 12 hour days and full of help. You can learn anything you want and have more than enough instructors to help you.

 

i have been to ron covell`s class - four of them in fact.i learned a lot and it was well worth the time and money. however it is a lecture format and the best way for ME to learn is hands-on. i joined Metalmeet and have gone to a few meets, it is HANDS-ON and class room instruction, the people bend over backwards to help.

 

Yeah location and money would be the two biggest factors, just like I'm chomping at the bit to do Bubba's workshop 2 but hell its halfway across the county...

 

Money and location for me.

 

$ $ $ $ $

 

money, got a great place to learn just up the road.

 

For me it's not just about the out of pocket expense.

I went from Nampa, Idaho to Sturbridge, Mass. for several days of long hours/intense training. It's not just the flight or the training that costs. Car rental, food and lodging all add to the cost of a training investment.

The real measure of return on your investment is did that training pay-off with insight/perspective that you didn't have before you went to that class?
Now, are you in a local that can appreciate/pay for what you have invested so much effort in?!

That last question is the killer around here. Before the ecomomy crashed it would have been an investment that would have eventually paid off. Now, ... it's more like flushing money down the toilet.
This is not an afluent area. Since the economy has crashed, descretionary spending has recoiled and local people are in hunker-down mode. Building a metalshaping business that surpases any other local companies abilities has been my goal for almost 30 years.
Now that I am capable of doing just that, I find there is no market for my skills.

I'm also in my 50's. Local options for income are now limited to about $10-$12 an hour range. That would be if I could get any of the local companies to even respond to the many resumes I've sent out over the last few years.
The way things are around here, I will have to relocate just to find gainful employment.

Have my metalshaping dreams been shattered? No, but they sure are a bit worse for wear!

I'd have to compare what I've done to myself with an anology about realestate investing, Don't overbuild for the neighborhood!
I'm finding myself to be that big fish in a small pond, and now there's a drought! The pond has shrunk to the point that if I'm to survive at all I have to find a bigger pond that has weathered the drought better than the local one has.

Am I all that talented as a metalshaper? Not really, just more advanced than the local market can/will support. My skills make me a somewhat exotic metalworker for this area. Local companies know that they won't hold me if other job opportunities/work comes along that better fits my skills than the few options I have here. What they don't understand or care about is, there aren't any other options for employment here.

So, before you invest your hard earned income in further training, make sure you aren't overbuilding for your neighborhood, or you may find yourself having to move to a bigger pond and start over.

Just some of that hindsight that has so clear a view!

Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

$$$$ Priorities for me;

While I've always wanted to attend a class or Metal meet, I figure the $1000 I'd maybe spend to travel to/attend would be better spent on;

Priority #1-Getting the Hot Rod driveable. Buying a radiator and some other critical parts to get ny 34 coupe on the road. I've already done all the metal work so it's not a factor. $1000 might get me road worthy.

Priority #2 Build my sheet metal tool collection. While I have an excellent MIG, torch, shear and bead roller setup, I really need a shrinker/stretcher setup and would love to build an English wheel which could be done for $1000. Coming back from a class to a needy shop seems backwards.

Priority #3-Attend a class.

 

This has been my dream, but $ is the main factor. Can't see myself trying to go into business around this pond at this late date in my life, should I develop the necessary skills, so it's hard to justify spending a lot of money on it. Some DVDs, a shot bag and some hammers, and some sheets of steel or aluminum...I can probably do that...my nephew has all of the welding covered...I have a few pet projects in my mind that are burning a hole, plus I want to do sculpture also.

 

Having read everyone's response. It seems there a common problem for the Metal Men. Lack of funds!! It seems that few people can see the value in what we do and it doesn't matter where in the world we are. I've taken some great classes and invested alot of money to do it only to scrape by to make a living. Maybe I'm just Old and tired but what about the next generation or does it just carry on. Maybe it's because we think were worth more any $15.00 -$20.00 an hour for years of learning and more learning.

My Rant: The Old Tinbasher

 

I am not a professional at this, I am just barely a hobbyist if you will. I never have had any classes but I have had lessons. I would call it lifes lessons from some talented artists like here on this board. Years ago when I was going to schooling for something else I use to go by a older guys place who did bodywork. I was amazed by his work. And the stories he would tell. I asked him one time if he ever saw a VW bus that was chopped and cut in half and he said son, I built that thing. He then proceded to tell me about how he built it and who for. He like the guys here on this site had tallent and a true artist. I learned so much. He passed away about 15 years after that bit he gave me something I wouldn't take anything for memories. I was just a kid but its funny how much sticks with you. I still have my first vehicle and fixed it back up. I used many of the things he took the time to teach me how to do. I made a english wheel to make many of the parts I needed. I also passed a little of that down to my daughter. When she was younger she got into the movies with knights and she wanted a shield. So we made her one on that old english wheel. Sometimes its not the cost of the education but the master artist who is the teacher that is the most value. Thats one of the reasons I come here. To see some of the work by the masters of metal here. I feel that teenager in me from a long time ago at times. Anyway even though there is some great schools out there, some of the best learning is free. Thanks to all of the metal men here for teaching this true artform.

 

Most people can't afford to pay for metalshaping/finishing. It's like bodymen, if they charged what they were worth every car would be a total. I can teach a monkey to do a brake job but he'll never be able to get a 1/4 panel straight.

 

Tinbasher, this is the way it is with all trades and crafts as of late, there is a general cheap attitude out there. What pisses me off is that people who have a couple bucks and are able to afford quality want to pound on the craftsman and get stuff for cheap. They say lucky to be working, I say not for ass holes.
I live in the big city Chi town, I have never seen a decent class advertised here. 12 million people in a hundred mile radius and no interest in metal crafting?

 

I've been to two of his classes, and yes, absolutely I would recommend them.
Besides the obvious how-to stuff, you come out of there with a sense of "Hey, I CAN do that." You also learn a lot of small things, like make sure you're comfortable when you work, so you can be fussy with what you're working on, and sometimes you just need to wad it up, throw it away and start over.

I'd like to take another of his classes.

-Brad

 

igrorance is bliss

 

for me its the time factor. and i havent looked into it really like i should. maybe i will tonight

 

Yes, yes and yes. Only down side is little if any hands on in his classes.

 

Lack of talent !!!!!!!!

 

I'd have to add myself to those who say lack of $$$$$ and location are an issue. Outside of hunting season I can get vacation time just about any time I want to ask for it and have plenty stashed away to use.
I wanted to go to Gene Winfields class at his shop a few months ago and although the time off was available the cost of the class, airline ticket motel, and rental car would put it up over 1K to take the class.
I'm not looking to make a living at it but being able to shape metal into something useful is a skill that I have always wanted to have.

If I had skills like Steelsmith says he has and lived off the beaten path I'd figure out how to fabricate things that had a wider market and could easily be shipped. They may or may not be automotive related pieces.

 

I would love to take a metal shaping class, I haven't found any in northern california. If anyone knows of any entry level metal shaping classes up here let me know.

 

pbr, lazze has one in pleasenton, about 45 min from san fran. sacremento customs took his class and they are doing 1/4 panels selling for almost a grand for 3-4 cars

also for the people that are asking about the dvd's, lazze's are great also. step by step.

nothing beats a class on how to read the metal and feel it, then have it explained to you what is happening.

 

Money, the LACK of money. There is a course offered in Massachusetts on eBay that I'd like to take but there are way too many bills to pay before I can do that.

 

I have been looking at the Lazze's DVDs, are they worth the $? I would love to take the course, the only thing that stops me is $.

 

I have his DVD's and went to his basic class in Phoenix, IMO Ron Covell is an amazing craftsman, and one of those kind of folks I like immediately.

BTW, did anyone see his latest column in street rodder where he is "schooled" by a reader?

He handled it so cool.