60'-70's Vintage Oval Track Modifieds

Could you please post a link for this statistic?
The best I could find was 45.73 @ almost 197 in 1980.
This, of course was significantly faster than the Cup cars.

I was quite young when we went to Trenton and the Pocono big track RoC, but I remember them as good races.

 

BullFather, just a short thanks for all the work rootin' out all of these photos.

 

Bill Elliot holds the title for fastest lap ever turned at Daytona in 1987 with 210.364 in his T'bird.
NASCAR decided right there and then that they had to cut speeds down below 200.

Bill later that year turned just under 213 at Talladega.

Fastest lap ever turned was by Greg Biffle in a test run, 218 @ Texas World Speedway.

I still say the mods could out run them. But, as has been stated, too dangerous though they have run the big tracks in the past.

 

A Sprint Cup car has a lot of frontal area, but a Modified has a lot of drag. For the same bhp, I'd be surprised if a Mod could achieve as high a top speed.
Currently, Mods are faster on circuits shorter than one mile, but at that length or longer the SCs are faster - is that right?

 

As far as NASCAR is concerned the Cup Cars are "the show", and they'll NEVER let any of the other divisions run faster....

That may indeed be true, but don't be confused...it wasn't in a short track modified. He had a Banjo Matthews built, "speedway modified" Camaro, with some trick aerodynamics and a 468 cu. in. big block Chevy under the hood. A couple of years prior, he also ran a "sportsman" Mercury Cyclone, and that car also, may have topped 200 MPH.

 

If they took the restrictor plates off the mods, I think they would still be faster than the Cup cars at a NHIS. Dover might be different though.

At NHIS and Bristol the mods run a restrictor plate and they qualify at comparable speeds.
2010_______Cup__________________Mods
NHIS__28.78s__132.337mph___29.663s__128.402
Bristol_15.54s__123.475mph___14.853s__129.347mph
M'Ville_19.24s___98.048mph___19.053s___99.386mph

Martinsville had Cup qualifying rained out, so I used the track record set by Stewart in 2005-pre COT

 

That is correct. The 'mods' run a lot of spoiler, which allows them to generate a tremendous amount of downforce, which, in turn, gives them the ability to create very high corner speeds, which helps the cars to achieve crazy fast speeds on the 'bullrings' that they usually compete on.

As you stated, these spoilers also create a lot of drag, but that doesn't quite come into play as much on the short tracks, since the cars are still in the 600HP range, which still is plenty of power to overcome that drag on straights that usually aren't much longer than 250 yards.

 

"As far as NASCAR is concerned the Cup Cars are "the show", and they'll NEVER let any of the other divisions run faster..."

In 1966 at Daytona, I recall Paul Goldsmith turning laps quicker in practice for what was then the "Sportsman" (?) race, in a 1963 Plymouth equipped with the hemi. The word even then was that NASCAR couldn't permit those cars to be faster than the then Grand National cars, and some steps were taken.

 

The AF20 that ran at the Rebel Speedway in Granby in the early 70's



My cars last week



On the shore of Lac St Jean in Quebec last Sunday Morning at sunrise.

 

Annual Racing Expo at the Hinchliffe Stadium, in Paterson, NJ On September 5th

Paterson, NJ - The extremely popular CARQUEST Gasoline Alley TV / Internet Show will take a break from the studio in Allentown, PA, pack their gear and take the show on the road on September 5th as they travel to the Garden State of New Jersey to take part in the annual Racing Expo scheduled for the famous Hinchliffe Stadium located behind the Great Falls of the Passaic River in Paterson, New Jersey. The Gasoline Alley Gang of Ed and Steve Pados will tape another another fabulous edition of their show from 12 Noon until 2 PM and talk to the many racing legends who will be taking part in the show and help bring awareness of the great legacy of the famous stadium.

(NOTE:- The show will air on Monday evening, September 6th, from 6 to 8 PM on channels 103 and 137 and worldwide on the Internet. This will be a special "theme" format of their show, teamed with the ongoing efforts of the Friends of Hinchliffe and racing personalities Ronny Dennis, Jim Reilly and Keith Majka the Pados brothers are honored to play a small part in the preservation of one of the great all-purpose stadiums in the country.)

The Hinchliffe Stadium was built in the era of the Great Depression and opened in 1932 with a seating capacity for 10,000 fans. Baseball was the first sport to use the stadium as the New York Black Yankees and the New York Cubans both played their home games there and later the stadium included football with the Paterson Panthers and later the Night Hawks. With the popularity of auto racing sweeping throughout the country, the stadium hosted exciting midget auto racing. That later gave way to the early years of stock car racing. The famous stadium has also hosted many other varied events throughout it's years of existence, which included Boxing, Track and Field, and Soccer. While the stadium has remained dormant for the past few years, the rich legacy of the history of the great stadium remains and it is hoped through the efforts of the Friends Of Hinchliffe Stadium and it's racing counterparts, the stadium will once again hear the roar of throaty race cars once again competing on it's 1/4 mile asphalt oval.

For the Pados Brothers, the return to New Jersey is significant. The Gasoline Alley name for the popular show came through their father Ed Pados, Sr who was raised in nearby Garfield, New Jersey, later moved to Milford, New Jersey and eventually settled in the Keystone State of Pennsylvania. The elder Pados was a frequent visitor to Gasoline Alley, in Paterson, NJ, where the legendary racing great Ted Horn had his race shops. The elder Pados was a close friend with this racing hero. Later when the Pados Brothers began to field race cars themselves, they utilized the motor services of the great John Bohlander who by then was located in the former Horn race shops. Through those friendships and alliances, the name of the Gasoline Alley Show was born. It is devoted to providing it's large audience with many trips back to the annals of racing history; as well as providing the exposure to the current racers and the youthful racing stars of the future.

The list of celebrities and guests expected at annual event include the legendary Chris Economaki of National Speed Sport News, whose name is synonymous with the history of auto racing. Former Hinchcliffe racers Bill Claren, Ronny Kohler, Bob Krieger, Neil Cole, and Russ Meyer are scheduled to take part in the festivities. Bill Nash, who attended every racing event ever held at the stadium and was close personal friends with the famous open cockpit race driver Bill Schindler, is the recognized historian of the stadium. He will talk about the rich history of the racing action that took place there. Legendary midget & sprint car driver Jimmy Maguire plus many other open cockpit stand outs such as Johnny Mann and Billy Courtwright are expected. Many former stock car wheel twisters including Nate Strunk and Wyatt Jacobus are also anticipated to be on hand.. If she's up to it, Bette Fornoro, the wife of the late Nick Fornoro, who was a champion midget driver with the American Racing Drivers Club (ARDC) and a former Indy car flag man hope to attend. The American Three Quarter Midget Racing Association (ATQMRA) will take part in the show, with Blu Metz of that organization on hand for the occasion. The Flemington Speedway Historical Society and the Tri-State Memorabilia Group will be on hand, as will famed, veteran race photographer Ace Lane, Jr. and writer Tom Avenengo. DJ Joey Metro Entertainment will provide music throughout the day.

A few of the many cars expected to take part in the show include the Chuck Slate owned restored Elto outboard powered midget, the Ed Picard 1938 midget that was in the Economaki Book, the White Ghost sprint car, the Johnny Zeke midget and a variety of other both vintage and current day race cars from all divisions of racing; plus hot rods, custom cars and street cruisers. All drivers and teams are encouraged to come out and join the festivities along with their cars, as the confines of the stadium are vast and the effort to rekindle and return the speedway to it's pedestal are paramount.

The Stadium itself will have the Gates opening at 10 AM and the Show begins at 12 Noon.

The Stadium is located on Liberty and Maple Street behind the Great Falls, in Paterson, NJ..

#####

For additional information regarding the show, contact Ronny Dennis at: 718 344 0505 or Jim Reilly at: 973 684 2763.
The website is: www.carlsign.com/hinchliffe.html
You can also email to:[email protected]



<!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->

 

Ken, I'm attending a racing reunion in Manassas VA Saturday Sept 4th, I will do my best to come to this one too. Thanks for letting me know. Denny Z

 

I hope you can make it Denny. I'd REALLY ENJOY meeting you.

I'm sure that Jimmy Maguire would have us laughing most of the day.

The following week, on Sept. 12th is Ken Brenn's show in Warren, NJ. I went to that last year and had a GRRRRRREAT time. Lots of racing people that I hadn't seen in many years. I'm going to that one too, but I know with you racing a midget the night before at Whip City, that it will be difficult for you .... but I hope not impossible.

 

Hey Ken...did you get any sleep between 3:08 and 10:52 this AM? I sure hope so!
Bill

 

Yes, you can trim out the spoiler to some extent.
I was thinking more of the aerodynamic mess around those big tires and the air intake configuration:



versus:

 

How about these old Aerodynamic Mods.!

 

CUP CARS and new Modifieds...aren't we getting off-topic on this old-Modified thread???
(60'-70's Vintage Oval Track Modifieds )

 

We are John & THANKS .. but before we close out on it .. keep in mind that the Cup cars undergo both PROFESSIONAL AERODYNAMIC ENGINEERING .. plus, RIGEROUS, VERY EXPENSIVE & REPEATIVE wind tunnel testing .... while the best most modified teams could afford is some shade tree aerodynamics.

Add to this .. for the most part, I personally find the super speedway Cup races BORING .. while the weekly bull ring races overall "ain't"!!!!!

Also, faster & faster speeds usually does NOT mean better racing. However, it doe$ alway$ mean increasingly emptier hip pocket$.

 

To quote that infamous Long Island band the Good Rats; "Speed ain't nothin' without class.

 

No question there, especially considering how the "Cup" cars have gotten smaller over the years, compared to the Chevelles, Torinos, and Road Runners that they used to be based upon.

Also, keep in mind that the bodies on modifieds are simply "draped" over the chassis, and very little is done to control/expel the air that passes through the raidator, through the open sides of the engine compartment, or underneath the car. In keeping with the overall theme of this discussion, "modified aerodynamics" are indeed vintage.....

 

Hear, hear!!


I was involved with a modified back in the mid 80s, along with a couple of friends. We all were long time racing addicts, and finally decided to get out of the grandstands, and take a shot at it.

We had decent jobs, but also had the usual expenses of food clothing and shelter. Racing was based upon our "extra money". We also were somewhat constrained by 8AM to 4PM jobs, jobs that we couldn't afford to lose, for obvious reasons. After 2 less than steller summers, we packed it in, and never looked back. We just couldn't afford it....

 

We had some cutting edge high-tech engineering tactics for the vintage '34 Ford I ran a couple of years ago - a shade tree racer's wind tunnel test - parked in front of a burn barrel with a hand held fan

 

okay back on the track....

 

I can not find images of it but there was a team based in the Inland Empire area of CA in the late 70s/early 80s that ran modified Datsun Z cars. Some of the best looking modifieds that I have ever seen.

 

Richie Evans never turned 220 in his superspeedway Mod. I was there, still have the qualifying sheets. His best pole was in 1979, when he ran 196. Smoked the field that year. His Cyclone Sportsman best run was around 179/180. The superspeedway Modifieds were awesome cars, still some of my favorites that I have ever seen, but nobody ever ran a 200 lap in one either at Daytona or Talladega. This weekend I'll dig and find some of my old snapshots from Daytona back then.

 

I believe the year he was so dominant was 1980 when started on the pole with a time of 45.73 which is 196.8 and led 65 of the 80 laps.
In 1979 he started second to John Anderson who was primarily an ASA driver at the time.

I never got to see them at Daytona, but I did go to Trenton and Pocono each year they were on the big track.

1979

1980

 

just got off the phone wt a person that worked for richie his avarege lap speed was 199 and change,, his shoot speed was at 220 mph in the camaro the banjo mathews built.... from the horses mouth