Allmetal....the worst ever

I don't like the all metal for powder coating, it's inconsistent in regards of results.

We use a high temp solder for big repairs, and a product from tiger drylac called Epo Strong for a light weight filler.

The Epo Strong looks, smells, and mixes like All metal, but I have never had a failure with it.

 

I used it , it was great on the welded seams, never had a problem and it grinds off, if needed, hammer in a can for those without skills,

 

Been using it for years. Dependable as hell over welded seams and have never had it crack, blister, or flake.
If it's hard to remove, then it's doing it's job....period.

 

yea i've heard of it, used it once in 1982 in my bodyshop, didn,t like it then. any product will be a problem when misused, i understand. just imagine trying to remove this hard stuff when it is over applied to large car and put where it dont belong and then painted with many gallons of lacquer. i prefer and do lead over welded seams and small bodywork, not in middle of large panels, i'm not that good. prefer a more flexible filler in those cases. the old bondo was bad for being too hard, dont know how that makes this stuff good.

dont appreciate inferences to my abilitlies or experience, over 30 years pro experience, just cause you dont know me dont assume i dont know what i'm doing.

 

I used All Metal on my 53 F100 over patch panels repairs, cab corners in particular in 1983. No plastic filler over it, shot the entire body in Amac (how many of you remember that) then shot the truck in Lacquer. Noe of it has cracked or caused problems yet, but it's only been 27 years so we'll give it some time.

Best thing was when asked if there was any Bondo in the truck i could honestly answer, "Nope, All Metal"

 

I worked for a resto shop in the '70's. All high end British, Jag, and some domestic classics. I gas hammer-welded repair sections to the bottoms of a '33 Cad convertible sedan, and covered the welds with All Metal. Vintage Auto Shop had been in business for 20 years at that time and swore by the stuff. It was slow and difficult to use, but held up well under lacquer primer. It feathered well and there was less shrinkage visible under the primer. I saw the Cadillac 10 years ago and it still looked fine [under black nitrocellulose lacquer].

 

First off, this isn't necessarily true. Composition is more important, after all, aluminum (the metal) is harder than bondo, but I'd say bondo is a hell of a lot more prone to cracking (but this is apples to oranges). This is especially true of a mixture, the base has a lot to do with flexibility, as does the ratio of suspended particles, what they're made of, etc. Metal2Metal (or AllMetal) is resin based, so while it may be harder than bondo, it's certainly softer than actual metal. As long as its more flexible than the metal its going over, you shouldn't have cracking problems.

Second, this gets back into "used properly". If its made too thick, you can have problems with cracking. But the exact same thing is true for bondo. I have a non-HAMB friendly muscle car that had its roof/quarter seam filled with bondo by a previous owner. I now have a HUGE crack right down the seam. Being softer didn't help worth a crap.

I used Metal2Metal for over 10 years in my old man's shop, I know for a fact he used if for close to 30 years. Not exactly sure when it came out, although I know he was using it in '79. And this is on old British cars,primarily Austin Healey's, which are fairly well known for having thin, flexible body panels. I've never seen a car come back with a crack in the body filler (and believe me, they would have come back), and in the 30+ years he operated I know of only one paint job that ever came back, and it was over 15 years old. And it wasn't because there were any cracks, the owner just thought the paint was getting "tired" and wanted it freshened up.

 

I used it for a quick cheap repair on a friends rusted out semi truck door in 1975. I saw that truck in a salvage yard this spring. The "allmetal" is still there and the old R-M brand fleet enamel is flawless. The rest of the cab is junk. I'd say 35 years and a half million miles says alot.

 

I'm thinking of using it on the side of my frame where there has been a small area of surface rust and pitting. I will be painting the frame later. Is this wise? Once the body is on you wont see it. I can cut that section out and replace it with real steel with no problems but was just wondering.

 

another +1 for allmetal. we use it on anything flexible because it won't crack.

here's a test: spread out about an 1/8th inch of allmetal and of rage gold on your bondo board and let 'em dry. now bend the board. the allmetal will flex, the bondo will crack.

all metal is a pain in the ass to spread for sure, but a little bit of plastik honey makes it spread and flow nicely so you don't have to sand as much. note the 'little' part. plastik honey will make it more brittle when used to excess.

the only other downside is you can't shave it with a surform while its drying, it will peel. it needs a good hour, more like 2 if its cool, to fully cure and bond to the substrate. it also likes bigger scratches to grab onto than bondo. make sure your metal is sanded at least to 80 grit with fresh paper or a fresh 36 grit disc on the air grinder.

also remember, you can use a body file on filler, too... it makes things go MUCH faster on anything but the flattest panels.

edit: oh, and to the OP, a torch and scraper will remove most any filler. wear a respirator, though, burning polyester fumes are some nasty shit.

 

show pics of the car & work....

 

It's a Bitch to work with, but I like it !

firstnomad
www.angelfire.com/jazz/flatlandstudio

 

would anyone suggest the allmetal for filling holes (where the trim would bolt through the doors/fenders on chevys)?

 

i've never heard of this stuff before, i'd use it if it were available here.

 

Nope, in a word! It's just not necessary. What's the biggest hole you gotta fill, .375? Fill your holes with metal and weld, and if you won't metalfinish them, just a swipe of standard filler will do. No need for exotic, gmickey fillers, they just arn't necessary.

" Spending a nation into generational debt is not an act of compassion "

 

yea, exactly...just small holes. I'll weld them up. Thanks for the reply...I'm new to this.

 

Go to a srap yard or metal supplier and get a drop (cut offs not used) of aluminum block stock. Use it as back up/heat sink. If you're vertical weld from the top down. If that's not possible then back the hole up with some sheetmetal and hold it in place with dolly block. After the weld you can grind it smooth but keep some water or a blow gun to cool it right after grinding. No filler needed if you try either one of these ideas. By the 2nd or 3rd hole you'll get in the groove.

 

I used Allmetal about 25 years ago, it was a bitch to sand, but real strong. I'm told boat racers, who use outboards, use it to re-shape the lower end of the motors. The way it was described, they put a paper cone cup on there, and cover it with Allmetal.

 

This thread should be called Allmetal....the BEST ever!!!
I used it where i welded my rear quarters on. Put it on and shaped it with a large sander with 60 grit wheel. Made a good base for my final skim filler.

 

I was thinking the same thing - how this started out as a bitch session on the stuff and turned into most guys liking it. Too funny!

 

Hey,

Not even close!

Using a filler to do the job you should be doing with a hammer, dolly & welding isn't metalwork, it's butchery! Suggesting to some that the use of over priced ''putty'' is a panacea to their woes borders on criminal. When last I checked, the HAMB was about tradition, not "Gypsy butchery bodywork ".

" Life ain't no Disney movie "

 

Because lead was never abused back in the day.

 

I agree you shouldn't substitute filler for quality metalwork, but what about a thin skim coat that will be mostly sanded away? I have a '26 T body that is pretty pitted over the entire surface; I am considering a super-thin skim of All-metal after a soak in the electrolysis tank, and the hammer and dolly work, just to get a smooth surface. I'm afraid to sand the pits out, as the steel may be too thin.

 

Good point. Hate to use a bondo coat over my steel '27 body also: yes, mine's thin-skinned too.

 

wow!!!!! ive welded on a lot of 1/4 panels in my life. and just never seemed to be able to finish the job with a hammer and dolly , or my vixen file or my slap shrinking hammer .. i guess im an untrad gypsy butcher criminal !! i cant believe i resorted to "putty" i will now hand in my tools , and take up golf!!!

oh i think allmetel works great over welds!

 

very well said.. thats what i was thinking but resorted to scarcasm instead! haha.. i shared a similar thought on one of the winfield threads .. these guys are too funny sometimes..

 

I thought the HAMB was about hot-rodders sharing thier love and thoughts on the craft?

I think that idea of tradition was best summed up in 'Fiddler on the Roof'...

Personally I have only used Metal2Metal, but I have been pleased with the results for working over welds. Spreads well and sands nicely.

 

Once AllMetal is dry, its like trying to sand a brick!

 

damn if ya do & damn if ya don't . Stop bitchin , least you are gettin paid to do something alot do for pleasure.

 

you can hand your tools into me...I'll give you a fisher price "My first golf clubs" set and "how to play golf starter video