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Good Nailhead Package

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by maddhatter1, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. maddhatter1
    Joined: Feb 4, 2008
    Posts: 61

    maddhatter1
    Member

    Hi i have a 65 riv 401 nailhead. 325hp and 445lbs im wanting 400hp at rear wheels and 500lbs tourque with a 373 rear gear and keeping the 3sp auto trans. im a body guy not realy a motor head wondering if someone can lead me in the right direction to acheive this with bore, heads, cams, headers, etc. if you can please be specific also carb cfm. thanks
     
  2. '46SuperDeluxe
    Joined: Apr 26, 2009
    Posts: 255

    '46SuperDeluxe
    Member
    from Clovis, CA

    http://www.buickstreet.com/build-a-better-buick-nailhead-page1.html

    You might find this link to an old article pretty interesting. I talked to a guy at a car show last year with a Deuce coupe with a nailhead in it and he found a guy that put a blower on it and got it running good on the street. Whatever you want to do, it can be done$$$$$
     
  3. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    400 at the wheels is about 500 at the crank these days, or there abouts. Depending on the car the 373 is kind of iffy, these engines are not high rpm engines. I'd say some forged ROSS pistons to bump the compression a little, an Edelbrock B262 or '66 Quadrajet manifold. B262 with 2 600cfm Carter/Edelbrocks. the Quadrajet manifold reworked by Gessler and a healthy 850cfm Quadrajet, Gessler can do the heads as well. A nice healthy Carmen Faso cam. Tom's Roller Rockers. A healthy MSD ignition. Carmen Faso oil pump. Double roller timing chain. A little balancing and some attention to detail. Maybe a nice custom equal length header. Pretty basic stuff for the Nailhead. Not cheap but effective. But it's pretty much all over by about 5800-6000rpm. But it's tons of torque from idle on....
     
  4. maddhatter1
    Joined: Feb 4, 2008
    Posts: 61

    maddhatter1
    Member

    Think i should stick with the 323 factory gears ZMAN?
     

  5. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    If it's for the Riviera I would. Maybe go with the 342 like the Gran Sport had. But I really wouldn't go beyond that.
     
  6. maddhatter1
    Joined: Feb 4, 2008
    Posts: 61

    maddhatter1
    Member

    the 66 intake and single four barrel is better for me i think i dont want to have to try to mess wth two carbs. stay with stock bore and just go hipo pistons?
     
  7. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC


    I see no real benefit in boring if you don't have to. Or if you have to bore, do the least possible. The increase in compression along with the other stuff needs to all compliment each other. I would definitely go with someone that understands Nailheads to do the heads and intake.
     
  8. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,584

    krooser
    Member

    I think those numbers would be hard to get from a Nailhead that's known more for torque that HP. It can be done... but without a blower you'd have a close to non-street friendly combination IMHO.

    Nailheads are fine engines... my '48 F1 with a lowly 322 could take off in high gear with it's stock rear gears... and even with 3.50's it could idle thru a turn at 2 mph... very nice motors for a daily driver. But not big HP jobs...
     
  9. maddhatter1
    Joined: Feb 4, 2008
    Posts: 61

    maddhatter1
    Member

    maybe im asking to much cuz i definatley want this streetable
     
  10. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,584

    krooser
    Member

    A nailhead can smoke the tires with the best of them But the limiting factor are the valve sizes... they don't call 'em 'nailheads' for nothin'....
     
  11. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    I think the Torque numbers are not out of the question. And I think if you just build a nice healthy 401 with a tried and true formula you may not make your HP numbers but you'll be happy with the torque, reliability, and performance.
     
  12. You're not asking too much at all. Listen to Z man his packaged will be streetable. You are going to want to lean toward your torque number more than your HP number. You're not building a high winding small block you are building a stump puller. Just remember that and gear accordingly.

    The Ol' Man raced nailheads when I was little. They were the only GM mill he really liked. He kept his car light and his gear tall, and he won, alot. You may not be building a quick door slammer with that heavy old riv, but it can be very respectable especially to anyone who knows.
     
  13. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Which makes for great velocity and great torque from the bottom through the mids, just not a bunch up high. You are limited head wise with what can be done or go in there. Which is why you need to build it as Nailhead and not try and SBC it. Build an almighty torque monster and not a big HP number engine.
     
  14. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    I like torque. I had a '63 Electra 225 four-door with no low gear at all, and it worked fine. No burnouts without Low though.
     
  15. DocWatson
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 10,273

    DocWatson
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Gessler are THE people to talk too! I recently lost some go fast 401 parts that were for my Gasser. Like High comp pistons, Schiffer fly wheel, blower intake, built Gessler heads..........
    Awww, I wanna cry.............
    Seriously Gessler know the Nailhead like no one else! Especialy for head work!
    Even a huffed nailer can help from some good head work.
    Speak to them.
    Serious.

    Doc.
     
  16. LeadSledMerc
    Joined: Nov 29, 2003
    Posts: 4,105

    LeadSledMerc
    Member

    I agree with ZMAN 100%...he hit the nail right on the head!:D
     
  17. We can also make pistons here @ CP Pistons (949)567-9000 ask for Ric P. I would also suggest a late model light weight ring package. There is a solid 20HP + over the original Std-High tension rings that came in your engine, she will also run 10-20 Deg cooler from the reduced friction on the cyl. walls. Unless your engine is a very low mileage piece, it will most likely need boring. Try to find someone with a torque plate for nail heads. T/A Perf. in Arizona has roller rockers, short and long tube headers and a couple decent cam grinds also. If you use some 21st century tech. instead of the same old 60's ideas, you will be amazed at the results.
     
  18. P.S. A friend of mine is the head engineer at Edelbrock. They are talking about making new aluminum heads and an updated intake maniforld for nailheads. You might want to inquire before dumping money in the original heads and searching for the '66 Q-jet manifold.
     
  19. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Nice to know but the ROSS ones are already in production and ready to go. I know of a couple places that have them in stock.

    Don't hold your breath on that one. Most of the Nailhead community has been trying to get information about that for the last year. Nada from them. Yeah they did a questionare but haven't followed through. And with them even if they do say they're going to do it you're looking at over a year to see anything.
     
  20. jessie.bor
    Joined: Apr 20, 2009
    Posts: 205

    jessie.bor
    Member

    try giving the guys at taperformance.com a call. i worked with them on my wifes riviera engine and i make close to 500 ft lbs or torque at the flywheel. getting to 500 hp however might be a little harder. but I'm sure the guys a ta performance can tell you how to do it.
     
  21. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Before I called them I'd call... Carmen Faso, Tom Telesco, or Russ Martin. Those are THE Nailhead guys and have been for years... all of them are great to deal with and will give you objective advice. You can join the Yahoo Nailhead list and ask questions as well. Lots of good guys there as well. And not tainted by wanting you to buy their products. T/A is good for somethings, but they like to push their stuff. And they're really more 455 and V6 guys than anything.
     
  22. jessie.bor
    Joined: Apr 20, 2009
    Posts: 205

    jessie.bor
    Member


    it was just a suggestion ta has never done me wrong with not shipping items or over charging just cause its nailhead stuff like others have done in the past. plus all of there items are in stock. not made when ordered. and they have everything for nailheads.
     
  23. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    A couple things, and I'm not just bashing on them, I order from them and have gotten good service, I recommend them as a parts supplier a lot...

    Look at the Neoprene seals they have for the timing cover and rear main. Standard stuff available for about $7 at your local parts place, why are they $15+ from them. Yeah a lot of their prices are ok, but they still do it. And they don't always have it in stock. I've been building Nailheads for a while and I order from them and it's not always in stock, though they seem to be better than most about telling me they don't have it. And they do not have everything... One thing off the top of my head, rocker shafts, and there are other things.
     
  24. hotrodstude
    Joined: Jul 30, 2010
    Posts: 70

    hotrodstude
    Member

    go with a 455 buick,pulling out 400 hp. not a problem.these engines eat hemis for lunch. i think kenny-bell was the buick people back in the 70's
     

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