History Vintage "Cageless" Midget Picture Thread

Looks to be a micro/half midget. Here's some scans from some old mags.

 

Rootie's right .. before I read that here, I read about Roger Ward in the first ever U.S. Grand Prix FI race in a Kurtis midget in a recent issue of Auto Week magazine. I'll quote from it.

"Everything was rather relaxed in those days. On the entry list for the World Championship Grand Prix, for example, was a Kurtis midget driven by Roger Ward, who won that years Indianapolis 500. The vehicle hardly complied with F1 regulations, but hell, who cared? What mattered was that Ward had a car to drive."

 

Yes, Rich (Rabs32) has been posting some GRRRRREAT midget pictures recently.

THANKS Rich & PLEASE keep 'em coming!!!

 

Rodger Ward Kurtis Kraft Offy, Sebring 1959.......

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=62103087

 

On eBay

1940's Era Midget Norden box Halibrand rear
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1940s-Era-Midget-Sprint-Car-Norden-box-Halibrand-rear-/350372054977?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item5193cd47c1

1970'S VINTAGE RON WARD/RAY JIMENEZ MIDGET RACE CAR
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970S-VINTAGE-RON-WARD-RAY-JIMENEZ-MIDGET-RACE-CAR-/300445537928?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item45f3f31688

1952 Vintage Midget Racer USAC Restored w race history!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1952-Vintage-Midget-Racer-USAC-Restored-w-race-history-/190415348009?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item2c55a3a129

1970 Edmonds 3/4 Vintage Midget
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Edmonds-3-4-Vintage-Midget-/150465556019?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_&hash=item2308722e33

 

Hey Ken,Thanks,found 2 more from my dads pile otherthan that all I've got right now is T/Q's fro A?C back in the 80's. heres two I believe are from Rosevelt stadium and a sample of the T/Q's

 

There is a wonderful picture of Bob Tattersall on the home page, at ;
www.historicspeedway.com It's a good look !

 

REMINDER TO LONG ISLANDERS.

This weekend is the show at the Historic Hallockville Farm in Mattituck (NY).

Vintage / Historic race cars .. racing people from both today & from days gone by .. vintage trucks .. all kinds of vintage industrial engines .. vintage farm equipment .. tractor pull competitions with real working farm tractors (TRULY AMAZING what they can pull) .. good food at the concession stand .. and MORE .... all set in one of the most beautiful parts of Long Island (if not the country) that you can find.

To me racing is not only about the cars & races .. but even more so about the wonderful people involved. Last year I REALLY ENJOYED this show, as I was able to renew aquaintances & friendships with a lot of GRRREAT people (both racers & fans) that I hadn't seen in years.

Last year admission was a mere $5.00 (for an adult). It's a FUN way top spend a day ... even with the family.

The show is both Saturday & Sunday. My old & wobbly legs .. plus the weather ... permitting I hope to spend Sunday afternoon there myself.

I HOPE to see YOU there!!!!
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

Is there going to be a show this year in Warren? My uncle was a big Johnny Ritter fan a would love to see Kenn Brenn's #24. As a matter of fact my dad was in Johnny Ritter's shop the day the OFFY for #3 arrived.

 

Hey gtxider ..

The Warren NJ car show is scheduled for Sunday, September 12th .. with a rain date of Sunday, September 19th.

You can find more onfo on the show at .. http://www.warrennjcarshow.org/

Ken Brenn himself plays a BIG part in organizing the Vintage / Historical race car portion of this GRRRREAT show.

See 'ya there!!!!

 

Ken Schou... I will be bringing the Darrell 83 to the Brenn show


Doug

 

SUPERB!!!
I REALLY look forward to seeing that car again. What a GRRREAT and very memorable history it has.

I'm sure the Brenn #24 Trevis will be there again too.

 

Taken from the racershub.com
~~~~~~~~~~

Hinchliffe Stadium Racing Expo

This years show is shaping up to be the best one yet. The Pados brothers will be broadcasting their Carquest Gasoline Alley Show from the Stadium. DJ Joey Metro will again be deejaying the show. The Flemington Speedway Historical Society will be taking part in the show.

We have a wide array of vintage and modern day (Both open cockpit & stock) race cars taking part in the show and can accomodate more.

If you would like to take part in the show, please contact Ronny Dennis (718)344-0502. ---- It is FREE to enter the show.

This years show will take place on Sunday September 5, 2010.
Gates open to paticipants at 10 am
Show starts at 12 noon and runs all day
Admission is FREE.
The Hinchcliffe Old Timers segment of the show runs between 1pm-5pm

Hinchliffe Stadium is located in Paterson, N.J., on the corner of Liberty St. and Maple St. next to the Great Falls.

The future of Hinchliffe Stadium and the possibility of the return of auto racing to this historic facility is looking brighter than ever.

Come out and show your support for the Stadium. While your there you can check out the Great Falls Festival. There is something for everyone.

See you at the SHOW!
(Ron Dennis)
​

 

A friend of mine just called me and said he was going to sell his early 30's flat tail midget. I listed it in the classifed section for him. If you are looking for a really nice early car, here is the link

Location: Clovis, Ca. Price: 32.000. OBO ​

<!-- message -->Completely restored and beautiful, this car is very historicly significant. I am listing this for a friend that does not have internet access. If you have any questions, please call Dan (559) 291-2242 between 11:00a.m and 7:00p.m PST. Thanks! (here is a link to some pictures)
http://www.vft.org/RouitMuseum/Gallery/Midgets.html

 

Haven&#8217;t seen any mention of the Vintage Sprint and Midget Nationals going on in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Belleville</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on">KS</st1:State></st1lace> this Saturday and Sunday.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o>
This is the 100<SUP>th</SUP> anniversary of the track.
<o> </o>
They are expecting about a hundred cars.
<o> </o>
http://highbankedvintageracing.com/VintageNationals.html

 

Hello,been following this thread since Its beginning, You Guys Really Know your stuff! I have a few vintage race cars 2 sprints & 2 midgets. I bought this car about 2 months ago from a fellow in Cleveland. He has NO history on this car.He bought it , with five other race cars from an estate in Toledo a few years ago. I am trying to find out anything about it. My good friend Jim Etter went with me to pick it up. Jim thinks it is a very early car maybe 1934-36 vintage ,and was probably built in California. Jim & i have looked thru the Jack Fox book, Ron Pollocks book, all of the Crocky Wrights books, the Floyd Dreyer book, NO luck, alot of similar looking cars in the Fox book . The car has some unique features, 12" lockring knockoff wheels, a Atlas Chrome look a like grille shell, handmade front axle & steering linkage, a crank driven Bosch magneto. The fellow said it had a Willys engine, well it doesnt. Jim & I have searched the web for all options No luck yet. Most of the early flatheads had left side exhaust & intake . I started a thread on this subject on monday & have had alot of response so far. We think it is out of a small car because of the matching 3 speed trans & clutch. Bolts right up ,no adaptors , clutch pedal out the side of the bellhousing. Engine has no provision for a starter, so it probably was hand cranked. When it raced im sure it was rope towed because there is no rear bumper or push bar, & no evidence that there everwas one.. One Hamber suggested it could be a tractor engine because of no starter. This car is really cool, and the condition is amazing. I am not going to restore it , going to leave if original. I taking it to the Winchester Old Timers weekend, maybe someone there might know something. Hoping to find out anything about it. Thanks in advance Deek

 

Trying To post pictures

 

A few more

 

I bought a nice copy of Ray F. Kuns' Automobile Racing Annual [5th edition, 1941?] and scanned the 1938 AAA Midget car rules. Only a page and a half was needed.

4" maximum wheel width & a minimum ground clearance are strange concepts today.

Chuck Schultz
Winfield, Illinois

 

It has been a trying year for midget fans here in the upper Midwest. No need to go into the gory details but the recent Bob Tatersall Memorial race at Morris Illinois drew only 10 cars and a long time observer reports most of the drivers had no idea who Bob Tatersall was.
Our Sportsman Midget Club, the Illini Racing Series, is pround to race in this year's Harry Turner Classic at Wilmot Wisconsin on 8/14/10. We expect 20+ cars.
Harry's last paid "stooge" Gregg Kishline was kind enough to furnish this write-up lest any of our competitor's not know who Harry was.

We hope to have several of Harry's creations on display at the event and possibly on the track for exhibition runs. The Ernie Fredrickson roadster will be on display as a work in progress. Efforts are being made to get a recent "barn find", the 1959 Badger championship car of Billy Wood, to the event in as found condition.



PROFILE: HARRY TURNER

Harry Turner's racing career lasted 50 years. He began at State Fair Park in
1938, driving a midget built from Model T Ford parts. Harry lived in both
Kenosha and Chicago, where he devoted his life to midget racing.

Harry was a master craftsman who built and drove both midgets and sprint cars.
As an owner, a builder, or a driver, he raced every year until he died in 1988.
He constructed more than 30 race cars in his lifetime. Harry drove
competitively in the midwest well into the 1960's, and he notched more than 100
feature wins.

Harry also competed at the Indianapolis '500' in the 1950's and 60's as a
builder, as a car owner, and an advisor to his good friend Tony Bettenhausen.

He built champ cars and sprintcars, but his love was midgets - he always owned
one or more. Having built or modified cars for customers prior to WWII, Harry
built a midget for himself in 1947 powered by a brand new Offy engine - serial #
282 - purchased from Bob Wilke. 'Eighty-two' became the car number for all the
Turner-owned cars that followed.

For six decades throughout the midwest, Harry competed in USAC, Badger, UARA,
and AAA providing winning midget rides for a Who's-Who of open wheel racing:

> Billy Wood > Gene "Pedro" Roehl
> Billy Engelhart > Kevin Olson
> Dave Wunrow > Les Scott
> Dean Billings > Jimmy Davies
> Marty Davis > Allen Heath
> Mike Nazaruk > Jigger Sirois
> A.J Foyt > Tom Steiner
> Dick Rathman
> Jim Hurtubise
> Parnelli Jones
> all the Bettenhausens - Tony, Gary, and Merle
... and many others

Despite crippling injuries he suffered in 1973 at a track in Kankakee, Harry
continued working from his wheelchair, building several more cars for customers
and for himself, until his death in 1988. He won two NAMAR national
championships as an owner, and one in the New Zealand winter series. He was
inducted into the Midget Hall of Fame in Sun Prairie in 2005.

Harry Turner was a supporter of Badger and Dairyland Midgets and one of the
toughest competitors in open-wheel racing. Harry was a master craftsman,
strong-willed, and yet he was generous with his fellow competitors. He was a
bonafide bench racer, eager to swap jokes and racing stories, drawing on a
lifetime in racing. Harry was unique - always speaking his mind and always a
formidable competitor at the track.


Turner-built cars restored and currently owned by Harry's son, Lance Turner:

The polished and maroon monocoque #82 midget was designed by Harry Turner and
Gary Bettenhausen in 1967. Harry built 11 of these cars, in which there is no
frame. The chassis is a lightweight, wrapped aluminum "tub", upon which two
subframes and the running gear are bolted. Powerplants for the monocoque cars
included the Offy, Chev II, and VW engines. This tub was Harry's 'house' car in
the early 1980's. After Harry, it was owned and raced by John Callahan and later
Kim Marks. It was restored and is now owned by Harry's son, Lance Turner.

The white, caged # 82 is unique, with its low-profile nose hiding a Chev II
engine. This spaceframe car was the last midget built and raced by Harry Turner
and his wife, Beth. In 1988 it was sold to Randy Mortland. Lance Turner found
it crashed, in Alton, Illinois and brought it back to Harry's original shop in
Kenosha, Wisconsin where it was restored in 2001.

The first of several cars built after he was injured and returned to Kenosha was
another of the unique monocoque 'tubs'. The black #11 was a VW-powered midget
built for Chicagoan Gary Hempel, in 1975 and '76. This car campaigned in Badger
and UARA and was later bought by Ken Dull who sold the wrecked car to Lance
Turner in 2002. Following mechanical repairs, the decision was made to retain
the original paint on the car, which Lance applied 30 years earlier.

[ A fourth Turner-built car also resides in the area. Tom Steiner and Rich
Volger both won NAMAR driving championships in Harry's straight-tube-frame white
#82 midget, currently owned by Jim and Sue Lothe of Sun Prairie, WI. This Chev
II-engined car has a classic post-war midget profile and appears without its
cage. Jim and Sue found the car in Kingman, Arizona and restored it in 1996.
(As the original owners, Jim and Sue also own a second Turner car - a
spaceframe Chev II - which they commissioned Harry to build in 1983.) ]

Thanks Gregg!

 

Saw Harry race many times. He had 2 cars then, the 82 and 28. He would tow into Williams Grove for the 100 lap race co sanctioned by USAC and ARDC.

He was the builder of the Rose Trucking Champ dirt car (1962) that had a chevy. Don Davis drove, later became the 46 Rutherford drove and I believe is in the collection of a Terre Haute banker.

Hope you get a good field and crowd for the event.

 

I know that Champ Car Stats has the #27/#46 Rose Trucking car listed as a Turner car but I'm pretty sure it was built by Herb Porter and Rocky Phillip (Racing Associates) with help from Don Brown between the 61/62 season. They also built the look-alike #28 sprint car that Branson and others drove in 62. And yes, it's in the Don Smith collection in Indiana now.

 

Rootie:
I posed your question to Gregg Kishline & got this response:
Chuck,

I'd like to view the roadster roster, to see the specifics. Perhaps, the issue is clouded by the fact that Harry had two cars at the Speedway, on two distinct occasions.

In the 50's, Harry was there every year as an observer. For the 1953 Indianapolis race, HT built an upright champ car for Lee Elkins which was driven by Mike Nazaruk. It DNQ'd for the '54 500. This car drifted around the dirt races in AAA / USAC for many years, and it is correctly identified as a Turner chassis. Harry built it entirely and there are a couple of magnificent skin-off 8x10s attesting to that, taken at the 'ranch' in Kenosha.

Race records (I'm using Dick Wallen's reprinted record in his 'Fabulous Fifties' book) show this McNamara #83 (...later #73) car racing thru 1958, which was a long career for a dirt car. But by then the dirt/asphalt distinction had taken hold. It didn't run much on asphalt.

In 1959 - and later - the records continue to show a 'Turner' chassis entered variously by the Texas Racing Club, Texas Racing Associates, or Rose Trucking, driven by Loyd Ruby and later by Johnny Rutherford. I believed intially that this was the '53 Turner chassis under new ownership.

But I asked Loyd Ruby before he died and he was not sure. Two years ago, I asked JR himself about this and he was clear. The car he drove then was built by Herb Porter and Chevy powered. So somewhere, somehow, I believe the records mis-identify this Porter car as a Turner chassis. And Herb Porter deserves a little more credit than the USAC records give him.

[ Alternatively, the Texas Racing Club may have initially purchased the tired Turner-built car from Lee Elkins and replaced it later with the Porter-built Chevy. We'll likely never know all the details... ]

Back to Harry. In 1959, Harry bought a wrecked roadster in Gasoline Alley entered by Bill Ansted. The car was an offset laydown-roadster built by Quincey Epperley in 1957/58 for the 1958 500. In 1958 it was the Jones-Maley Special, owner/entrant was Jimmy Jones, an Indianapolis car dealer. [ Incidentally, it led that race and ran fourth, driven by Tony Bettenhausen. Despite too much time in the pits, Tony liked the car, and a laydown had won in 1957 and 1958. ]

Bill Ansted bought the car from Jim Jones before the 1959 race. Tony stayed on as driver, but flipped the car in Turn Two just before qualifying started, Day One. Damn.

Harry buys her, sans engine, for $1000 and rebuilds the wreck in six days back in Kenosha. Second weekend, the Turner crew is back in Indianapolis, installing the laydown motor that Johnny Pawl built during that week using all borrowed parts. Car ran 142-143 mph, but snapped its crankshaft before it could qualify. Damn again.

Under Harry's ownership in 1959, this Epperly-built roadster (#83) was also entered at Langhorn and Springfield (both dirt!) and twice at Milwaukee. (Al Dean got sponsorship credit, lending Harry motors that didn't survive.) It also ran in 1960, modified by then to an upright engine by Harry - with much chassis re-work. I believe Dick Rathman drove it Trenton in 1960...

When Tony died at the Speedway in 1961, Harry parked the car, then sold it and it ran as a supermodified, beat to death. Bob McConnell owns the sad remains (I've seen photos) and plans to restore it, but like most restorations, it is MAJOR. Good luck, Bob. These are really re-creations using bits of the original car.

So Harry's role as a builder and as an owner at the Speedway (5-6 years apart) may be causing some confusion - coupled with the fact that the car which ran out of Texas in the late 50's/early 60's - despite being credited as a Turner chassis - was very likely Herb Porter's work, not Harry's.

Harry never built an Indy roadster from scratch - though he sure as hell rebuilt Quin Epperly's Jones-Maley laydown (repaired in 1959 and redesigned again in 1960 as an upright). And Harry did build an upright champ car in 1953 that ran a long time. The rest is in the records and the memories of racers now gone - except for Johnny Rutherford who got in the game in the late innings.
That's the best I got on Harry at the Speedway.
gk

 

Gear Guy, I agree with the fact that the Turner dirt cars mentioned are two separate cars. The 1962 Porter car was new in 1962 showing up at Trenton sans paint. Don Davis set a new track record qualifying. Wallen reiles on the Phil Harm database for car makers and Turner is Harm's choice. Now Porter was not known for building frames, and Rocky Phillips was known to copy cars, see the 1959 Lesovsky Indy pole sitter. Perhaps Harry was the actual frame builder, car skinner. I don't know.

Yes Harry bought the wrecked roadster in 1959. I always thought he was kind of pissed Tony B jumped so fast to the Hoover Epperly. Certainly it was a thrash.

The roadster that Dick Rathman drove at Trenton was either a watson or Trevis Watson clone.

Hope that helps.....or not!

 

I guess I need to jump in here and share also. I have a 1946 Kurtis Kraft midget. I am the third owner, I am told. It amazingly has the original Offy engine delivered to the original owner in early 1946. According the the book on Offenhauser engines, this serial number is the first engine they produced after WWII which matches with a pre-serial number KK midget. Ken Hickey built the motor for me. He also did the motor for my Edmunds Offy that I sold to George Barber and it resides in his magnificent motorcycle museum in Alabama.





Here it is #38 with Chuck Weyant on board.

 

This is in regard to the Solon Springs Offy owned by Tubby Kirchner of Solon, OH. My name is Don Moore and I currently own three midgets that I run with POWRi/USAC/ARDC. I have been in contact with Tubby's son Kent Kirchner of The Woodlands, TX regarding the midget that his dad owned. It was the pop bottle car with two pop bottles painted on the tail for the number 11. We are looking for this car!!! Here is what we know at this time. The original car that he owned was a Kurtis. The second car he owned was built by a guy named Walt Heman of Michigan. This is the car we are looking for. Tubby died unexpectedly in 1971. The family sold the car to, we think, someone in Michigan. The new owner may have put a Chevy II in it, we don't know for sure. It also had a chrome detachable cage. Kent has not seen this car since and has no idea where it is. We want to track this car down. If any of you have any info on this car, please contact me. Here is a PDF photo of the car we are looking for. this is bob McClean at the wheel at Terre Haute in 1968 passing the George middleton Pizza Hut number 15 driven by Danny Frye.

See the next reply for the PDF attachment pic of the midget.

My e-mail is: [email protected]

Thanks!!

Don Moore
LaGrange, OH

 

OK... I'm trying to post a PDF but it's not working!!

View attachment popmidget.pdf

OK... there we go!!

 

Thanks, Don. That's a great photo. I remember seeing Bob win the Hut Hundred in 1960 (I think).

 

Here is a picture of my dad, a few of you might remember, I'm not sure where the older picture was taken.

 

Tommy, the No. 7 Van's Tavern car is the one I remember.