Here are two pics of my old '39 Willys 4 dr sedan. Well known in the Pacific Northwest it was built by the MacLander Twins. After building this SBC Willys the other twin had found a 1939 Willys 2 dr sedan and the story goes that when it came out of the Redi Strip tank it was noticed that it also started life as a 4 dr. sedan but the rear doors were welded & leaded at the factory.
Dave I found the same thing on the 39 2 door sedan Dad & I had when I was building my 39 sedan Street Rod back in the late 80's. It was a great running stocker in need of a full cosmetic resto. I sanded down the original paint and found the same leaded seams. We painted it in gray primer with purple scallops and put on a set of old 5 spoke mags. Drove it all summer like that. We ended up selling it to a guy who planned on restoring it. It was one real nice rust free car.
A 2 dr.sed. 38 and 39 ONLY I have a 39 2dr. body in pieces up in the loft. And a friend of mine here in Red Hook was in my barn one day and said he had a Willys 3 DOOR Woodie like the front end I have sitting on the shelf. I didn't believe him until he started telling me about it and who he sold it to. This was back in the late 70's. It was a 40. The Willys woody had 2 doors on passenger side and 1 on the drivers side. Pat
Question to the guys who had or have worked on a two door, are the rear doors welded and leaded up? If so, what about the garnish moldings? Nobody has mentioned this other than me.
I have a 38' 2dr sedan . It is a true sedan. I am currently putting a hemi in it. I can answer any questions that you might have. i will post the pictures of the project here.
If you have a true two door , you have rear garnish moldings. The factory did lead the rear doors shut. Those bodys have no garnish moldings.
All of the two door sedans are 4 door bodies. They took the rear door skin with the handle delete and welded them to the existing body, they made a different inner panel to use with a garnish molding so you could get the glass in similar to the coupes. The four door sedans have a slice in the bottom of the door and the internals are installed from there. With the two door, they had to come up with a different way to do it. Willys was king of using old parts they had left over, and you will see different year parts on different vehicles that "didn't" come with it, or wasn't supposed to. I've found so many variations in the american built Willys, it truely is mind boggling. If you have a Willys pick up, look at the "B" pillars and you will see the hinge pockets for the rear doors, the floors are cut off and screwed to the lower lip on the back of the cab. For what I've found, the 37-9 wheelbase was 100" the 40 is 102" and the 41-2 is 104". I have a 39 sedan, a 40 pick up myself, and in the shop, I just finished up a '41 coupe, have another 40 coupe here. Just sold a '37 4 door sedan, etc... I get a lot of these through the shop and the one thing I can tell you, just when you think you know....you find out you don't. Have fun....
The 39 I had looked like a 4 door body with a special inner & outer panel to fill in the rear door opening. I don't remember about the garnish mouldings, that was 25 years ago.
I am not sure if that is the kicker. I am not familiar with the 1941 woodie floor pan, but the 1940 is, as I said, wood from the rear seat riser back. That floor pan in your photo looks nothing like a 1940 woodie floor pan for sure - and I have an original 1940 Willys woodie project. I guess it would take the owner of an original 1941 woodie to confirm that the 1941 is different from the 1940 and is all steel at the rear. I have added some photos of an original 1940 woodie floor pan showing the unique rear structure with wooden access panel and the woodie specific rear wheel tubs. It seems paradox that Willys would heavily revise all this for the 1941 model year for a production of a further five (reputed) woodie wagons, but as I said earlier, after many years of collecting and studying these cars, there are no absolutes....
Right on, ",,,just when you think you know....you find out you don't". There is a lot of that on the HAMB concerning what Willys produced and what they didn't produce. Lot of folks think they know everything about Willys and guess what,,,,they don't. Learn something new everyday. For the 37-40 Willys Sedans I've messed with over the years the rear doors have been welded and the seams leaded on the 4s to make a 2. Of course the side trim was different for the 2s as wells. Also, as already pointed out, the b-pillars on the pickups from those years have the hinge pockets for the back doors on the sedans. One other thing, the front doors on the 4-door sedans are easily converted to pickup doors by rounding the top rear corner. This becomes much trickier and a lot more work when one tries to use a sedan door on a coupe. As I pointed out a couple months ago on a similar thread discussing Willys Deliveries, most of us are building rods and/or Gassers,,,,does it really matter what Willys did or didn't do in any given year??? Build what you like.
I will take some pictures of my sandblasted bodies..... However there is a difference from a true two door and a fourdoor with the doors welded. My body is sandblasted inside and out and there is no door frames or weld seams on the body. SO 58 fed .. yourfactsw are a bit off
Mopar'd, I am only going based off of what I have seen here at my shop, I'm not saying what I know is law when it comes to these, only a fool would believe that they know everything. I have seen a really nice two door sedan that was a 4 door, the owner took his time, unfolded the lip on the rear doors to give him some extra metal to work with, tig welde everything, made his garnish molding and inner panel from some badly rotted coupe doors etc... It looked like it was stamped that way from the factory, he even changed up the "C" pillar and over the door top etc... It was nice.
Thanks for all the replies, I love learning more about these very special cars. If I read this right, your saying the factory made some welded up four doors and some real two door sedans? The welded up ones from the factory had no garnish molding? If so how could you change out the rear glass?
Hi Dave, Very slowly. We probably won't really get going on it until winter. We picked up a new chasis that had all the old stock parts on it and we will probably be putting that under it. I love the willys sedans. My favorite is shane weckerlys (spelling?) i got to see it in person at bowling green a couple of years ago. Wanda
Wanda- I am with you on the winter builds. I work for an asphalt company and when my day is done in the summer the last place I want to be is in the hot garage. I do everything from October till April. Thats the reason its taking me so long to get mine together. I thought I would get it fired this spring but didnt make it, should be this winter for sure. I need to get with Larry about a few things he can help me with. The chassis swap is also what I ended up doing with mine as it was an old race car and everything was bent and twisted, damn old blown Hemis!.........LOL!
John- Thanks for the replies, I miss you and your dad. Im sure our paths will cross again soon. When my old coupe gets running we will be back on tour. I have been just doing the local shows without Joyce so its a short stay for me at the races.
Bump it up with another old sedan picture. I sure would like to see some pictures of two doors stripped of paint and interiors if anybody has any.
Shanes car is a 4 door with the rear doors welded shut. I should know as I sold that car to him. I replaced the hump trunk lid with a 39 flat lid.I still have the hump trunk lid if anyone is interestd. He Did a very nice job of finishing the car. As stated before. I had 2 --39 2 door sedans and they both were not leaded in door skins. I have had many Willys over the years and found out that there are differences between west coast cars and east coast cars. Could this be the case?You never know about Willys. I added a picture of my brothers 40 Willys. Started life as a 4 door,now a 2 door. He used two rear doors to lengthen the front doors. <O</O
I own the Spiegel Brothers 41 Willys AA/GS 2 door sedan. It was campaigned in Northern California at Sacramento, Vacaville, Lodi and Fremont drag strips from 1967 through 1969 then the brothers went funny car racing early 1970. The body is actually a 1939 2 door sedan.The rear doors are welded shut from the factory, the door handle hole has a smooth plate over the opening, the interior garnish moldings are stamped metal and there were no provsions for window regulators.
Can sedan rear fenders be used on a coupe body? Are there any differences between 37-42 sedan rear fenders? I realize this is somewhat OT of this thread but with knowledge of some of the posters on this thread ,it seemed like a good place to ask.
Just thought I'd throw this in to keep my end on the conversation going.......about 18yrs ago a mate & I went on a tin hunt, ended up at an old wrecking yard in Bentley in Northern NSW Australia. It had been pretty much cleaned out of early Ford stuff but on one side there were 2 1937/38 Willys Tourers, sitting side by side, both were major restorations, but were basically complete bodys with front sheet metal, fenders etc and the hood bows, no upholstery but never mind. I thought they were uncommon looking at them, but didn't realise till I got home........Norm Darwins History Of Holden book(they had Holden body badges on the cowls) listed 12 Tourers made in 1937, none in 38........from memory they wanted about $1000 each for them which was over my means.........dunno whatever happened to them & unfortunately didn't take a camera at the time.........Andyd.
You can use 37 to 40 sedan rear fenders on all coupes from 37 to 42. The wheel openings are different in both size and locations because of wheelbase changes as we mentioned in this thread but most cut them anyway for tire clearence. The 41 and 42 sedans had a totaly different rear fender and will not work on any coupes.
I remember seeing your sedan for sale a couple times over the years, you have a good car there! Are you saying your rear garnish moldings are removable or not?
The garnish moldings are not removable, the rear quarter window panes are held in place with a 360 degree rubber seal the same as the front windshield. About a year after I acquired the car I was able to contact John Spiegel. He told me they had a friend who had this cherry stocker Willys 2 door sedan, they wanted something different to run, but they also wanted a show car, so they were real careful not to hack it up and left it as unique and pretty as you've seen. They won first place in the competition car class at the Sacramento car show several times. They occupy spot # 129 on the all time fastest gasser list 8.65 at 165 mph.
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