Alright. The '50 Ford is up and runnin' but when I dump that clutch, I've got violent wheel hop. The rear is an 8" Ford hung from stock leaves. Only two leaves remain on either side, mostly for lateral support. It has 2" blocks and relies on airbags for vertical support. Without redoing the whole rear suspension (4 link), What can I do to fix this condition? I'm not willing to put slapper bars under it cause it would look just plain 'ol silly. Can I just put brackets on either side of the pig with hiem joints and rods forward to brackets on the frame to keep the rear from twisting and binding the springs?
Your best option is to install additional leaf springs to stop the axle wrap-up that is taking place.
Make a simple bar that attaches to the spring pad and runs forward to the forward spring bolt. You'll need to fab a couple of brackets and a round bar with a rod end on at least one end. I did my 40 Ford coupe like this last summer and I have pretty stout engine, I was also using the main spring and one other. It was marginal, so I put a new set of chassis engineering springs on it and that nailed it to the ground. john
( so I put a new set of chassis engineering springs on it and that nailed it to the ground ) ....BINGO ! Just what I said !!!
Yeah, what these guys said. Your experiencing spring wrap up caused by axle rotation. Not only did your original springs keep your cars belly from dragging the ground it also located the axle in the frame only allowing it to move up and down. Remember this, as your wheels are being forced to rotate and move the car forward there is an equal and opposite force rotating the axle housing the opposite direction. Best solution is to add a four link kit of some sort. I am fond of the triangulated type but not on cars with air springs where the intent is to change ride height frequently. In your particular case a paralell four bar with a Watts linkage would be the system of choice.
So if I fabbed brackets to go between the spring perches and the blocks and ran a bar up to the front spring eye it would keep the rear from wrapping over while maintaining the same pivot points as stock right? (More leaves? That means the car would sit higher, and we can't have that!) However, I should get new leaves to replace the stock ones.
Uhhh no. If you do that you will break stuff and cause the car to ride like crap. What you could do if you don't want to do it right is put all the springs back together and take the spring packs to a spring shop and have them take all of the arch out of the spring. At least this way you will have some axle control.
ELpolacko, my response was to see if I understood Mr. Copeland correctly. You can take it up with him as to whether or not it works.With what I currently have on the car, is in neccesary to put an entire 4 bar system on it. If I did what I suggested in my opening post, wouldn't that be enough to keep the rear from twisting over and causing the wheel hop?
Chris50 there is good info above....fine tune it a little by making sure the third link or trac control arm is HIGHER than that spring pad location....it would allow it to pivot on the same poit so i will work its best if it is 4-5" higher that that level......if it could be same length as the distance between the front spring hanger bolt and center of wheelbase it would be ideal......
I did replace the springs as the other guy said, five leaves, the ride height remains the same only stiffer.
The springs are almost flat when installed. I also cut about an inch off the lowering block, mine were three inches. I cut about a half of an inch off and then milled another 1/2" off at an angle to adjust the pinion angle.
Thirdyfivepickup, not an option. John, what kind of dimensions or directions should I give to the guys at the spring shop? With the 2 leaves currently on either side of the car, instead of an arc, they already have a slight "S" shape to them. Along with de-arching new springs, would it help keep an arc in them if I shortened them, say 1" or so? And about what we posted earlier, do I have the right idea about the bars?
elpolacko... just curious, why do you say you don't like triangulated with airbags? im running it in mine with no problems. i just made sure the top and bottom bar mounts are the same distance from the rear end. and also there is equal spacing height wise between the mounts at the frame and rear end. this makes it act like a parrellel foulink. i do agree that the watts link setup is ideal, but sometimes difficult to install
Another option is to place the shock absorbers on opposite sides of the axle. One facing front and the other, rear. What this does is forces one shock to be in compression with the other in rebound when the axle wraps. Since compression and rebound on most shocks are different values, this tends to dampen axle wrap while not affecting normal shock action. You may have noticed that GM figured this out about 1970, and all GM's since have had this shock placement. Cosmo
The guy you need to talk to is Springer here on the HAMB.He works at a suspension shop here in Michigan. His shop AB Spring makes a special traction leaf spring thats gets rid of wheel hop with out needing traction bars. I got a set for my old Nova. It had a nicely built small block and an air ride suspension on it. It hooked up great and no wheel hop.If they do'nt stock the ones you need they will make them. They pretty much just look like regular leaf springs so it does'nt look funny on an older car.
My car sat really low with them on it. Kustombuilder here on the HAMB used to work at the same shop, he could probably also give you some info.
Here's one way out. Very trad as well. These are Traction Masters and were installed on many cars mid-late 50's. The pic is fairly self explanatory, but they're easy and cheap to make. Couple of brackets welded to a flat plate that matches the lower spring plate. (Or . . . weld the tabs to the spring plates proper.) Length of 1" x .120 wall DOM tubing or similar. Four eyes cut from DOM tubing - or done like it was back in the day - four old shock absorber eyes cut off the shocks and welded to the tubing. Making your own eyes is the best bet. You can buy Polyurethane bushings in the right size from High Energy. (If your rubber shock absorber rubber bushings are in good shape, re-use them.) Front bracket can be one sided although two are better if there is room. We never had a problem with the one sided brackets. Length on this should be close as possible to the length between rear axle center and front spring pivot. Traction Masters work well as a traction aid and do stop wheel hop, but they don't load the chassis like a well tuned 4-bar setup would. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Another way out is to copy what ChryCo did for their Super Stockers in the early 60's. Get another main leaf or 2nd leaf from the same make spring as yours or one that's the proper width and matches your present leaf spring. Cut this leaf so the front end is just behind the front spring eye. Cut it again, about 4" behind the rear of the back spring U-bolt. Install this new leaf on top of your old main leaf and between axle perch pad and old main leaf. Use a new spring center bolt. You'll probably have to remove a couple of spring keepers to do it - keepers are there to keep the springs leafs from twisting away from one another in the horizontal plane. (Keepers are my term for the gizmo's that are heavy gage sheet metal wrapped around the spring leafs.) Make 6 spring clamps. These are 1" wide 1/4" steel. Size them big enough so the bolt holes will be just outside the springs leafs. Not only are these a clamp, they're keeping the leafs aligned in the horizontal plane. Drill them for 7/16" bolts - grade 5's are fine. Use nylock nuts. Mount two of these spring clamps on the front half of the leaf spring. About 1/3 and 2/3 back from the front spring pivot. Mount one spring clamp about 1/4-1/3 back from rear axle center on the rear half of the leaf spring. Repeat for the other side. You'll find this is a pretty good setup. It gets you away from spring wrap and I think it launches harder than the Traction Master setup. I had both of these setups on my built Olds powered 50 Ford coupe. The Traction Masters worked fine on the strip, but the - slightly better - ETs were with the clamped springs. The spring clamping bit worked fine for the ChryCo racers and more than a few copied it. The ride quality doesn't seem to change to any great extent.
These are almost inentical to what I built for the 40 and they make the car hook good. I'm using a 4:11, 8" Ford and like I said, I did replace the springs with a new pair from Chassis Engineering. Shortening the springs won't help and if they are already so weak that they are s shaped, I'd say they are shot. You could build the bars like the picture suggests and try to add a couple of leaves, say maybe another used main "leaf" with the bolt eyes cut off of them. Re arching the springs is also going to change that in-the-weeds look your after. John
In general I really like triangulated four bars. But in the case of air springs where the ride height is "adjusted" frequently your drive line angles will change. This will cause a drive line rumble in most cases. A parallel four link is easier for a novice to install and a greater chance of tuning out any ill effects. It sounds like you have your sorted out though.
Thanks for all the info guys. I think I've got enough here to get her hooked up. With any luck, I'll be doing wheel-hop free burnouts this spring.
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