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SBC into '39 Ford

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hot LZ, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    Well, when you get OLD ... and forget things,
    photos and part number HELP a LOT :)


    I have a notebook on each car/project that I write down what I used and where I got it ( along with the recipt or price paid ). I started doing this as a log book back when I drag raced. Developed the habit and just kept it.

    :D :rolleyes: :confused:
     
  2. That's only PART of his secret.

    He usually buys a spare of most everything! He just went out to the shop and looked at the spare one!

    Don't forget, he's been at this for a LONG time! :p

    If you ever get the chance to check out his garage and shop, you will see for yourself! :)
     
  3. Beautiful 39
     
  4. Hot LZ
    Joined: Jun 14, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Hot LZ
    Member

    OK, I’ve got a ’39 ford with a sbc 350 in it and going with a 12 volt system. And I’m getting down to the wiring now and I’d like to know if I can keep the original ‘39 ford ignition switch that’s on the steering colomn (see photo) and have a starter button as the original too.
    A diagram would be helpful, you guy’s have pulled me out of some tough issue on my project and I’m sure someone has an answer to this one too. Thanks, Hot Lz
     

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  5. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    I had my 40 done the way you are talking about.

    I even used the original push button that came in a 40.
    Just take the ( hot when depressing the button ) wire from the push button and run it down to the solenoid.

    Simple :D
     
  6. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    When I did my 34 PU I wanted a genuine Ford starter button (not sure of the year) and not a universal one. Ford used the starter button to ground the solenoid to complete the circuit so it has only one wire terminal.

    I used a conventional horn relay hidden under the seat to energize the Chevy solenoid. The wire that went to horn button goes to the Ford button. The hot wire goes to one side of the solenoid and the other side goes down to the start terminal on the Chevy solenoid. Hit the button and it grounds the horn relay sending power on through to the solenoid. A horn relay is heavy enough to handle the starting circuit and is cheap and readily available.

    You can get a universal starter button with 2 terminals and are easier to hook up but they look like universal starter buttons.:D I'm picky about that stuff and it was a challenge to figure out a simple cheap way that could be serviced on the highway if necessary.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  7. Hot LZ
    Joined: Jun 14, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Hot LZ
    Member

    Thanks guy's. So is safe to say that I can keep the original ‘39 ford ignition switch
     
  8. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    Yup!.
     
  9. Hot LZ
    Joined: Jun 14, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Hot LZ
    Member

    YAP!, is good enough for me, Thanks Tommy.
     
  10. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    I like to take the old switch apart carefully lifting the tabs. Pull out the black part with the exposed terminals and then use a fine file to resurface it. It cleans up the contacts and removes any groves that might have worn into the body. You can get repos but I think an original is better after a little tune up.
     
  11. Hot LZ
    Joined: Jun 14, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Hot LZ
    Member

    Thanks Tommy, Is there any trick that I should know about when it's time to wire everything up? Battery, Coil, Gage?
     

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  12. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]

    This is scanned from an early hot rod wiring mag and just about has everything. Notice that it is divided up into boxes or systems. Each system can be altered to match your components without changing everything. If you want an alternator just change the generator wires. Using the 39 switch will alter the wires from the key switch but if you study it and make up your own drawing it will become clear and easy to wire.

    It has become very popular in recent years to yank all the wires and add a universal harness but if your original wires are still sound all you need to do is adapt the different charging system, starting system and ignition system. Adapting a modern universal harness to work with the old Ford components can be more of a problem than just changing what needs to be changed. I'm guessing that your light switch is still in the column. A cool feature of an old Ford.
     
  13. Hot LZ
    Joined: Jun 14, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Hot LZ
    Member

    Thanks again Tommy for all of your help. I think we're on the same page as I do plan to keep the original light switch / horn button, ignition switch and starter button, (that I think I've got figured out with horn relay).
    The only thing that I'm not sure of is the three polls on the old ignition switch (Battery, Coil, Gage) and where exactly they would lead to. Am I missing something?
    Thanks one more time, Hot LZ
     
  14. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    Since they both are hot when the switch is thrown you'll just end up with an extra hot terminal. The coil term. would go to the coil through a ballast resistor. (same as the run term. on a universal key switch) The other terminal would get connected to the original harness just as Henry built it. The original harness should work just like it did in 39 getting fed from this terminal when the switch is thrown. The old wire to the starter button can be cut off at the harness. It is not hot. Same thing for the other end at the no longer used Ford solenoid.

    I never worked on a 39 so I don't know how the power is fed on a stocker. If the original harness got power from the Ford solenoid then it will need to get power from a battery connection some place., usually the Chevy solenoid. The only things that get altered are the starter and charging systems.
     
  15. Hot LZ
    Joined: Jun 14, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Hot LZ
    Member

    Well I think we're all most on the road, but then, as always, there is still a little way’s to go. Your explanation and then taking apart the ignition switch ( with a tune-up ) I think I’m on the right track.
    I’m going to keep the original starter button ( as who’s to say, who at what time or at what place hit that button in the last 71 years ). I like the idea of using a horn relay, I’ll give it a try. Can I use any 12 volt horn relay?
    We need more guy’s like you, Thanks for all the in-put!
    Hot LZ
     

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  16. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    Sure. I'd try to use one from a popular car so in the rare case of a failure a replacement will be easy to find. That's why I used a horn relay instead of some fancy relay that can't be found in a pinch. They rarely go bad and you can easily jump out the relay if you get stuck. If you use one from a classic like a Chevelle or a T bird, they will always be available mail order but check out what Pep Boys has on their peg board.

    Most people think we are nuts..."just get a generic starter button and be done with it" maybe but not for me. I like old stuff and details matter.:D
     
  17. banditomerc
    Joined: Dec 18, 2005
    Posts: 2,475

    banditomerc
    Member

    Great thread fellas!:D
     
  18. fryguy
    Joined: Nov 26, 2005
    Posts: 1,235

    fryguy
    Member

    What tooth flywheel did you use? I am having difficulty getting a starter to fit in the bellhousing. Using a 283 mated to a '39 trans in a model A. Don't know if I should swap to a 168 tooth or not.
     
  19. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,628

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    I have a 168 tooth on my '39 Tranny. It used to be a 350 but now I am hoping it'll hook up to the 265 I am having built.
     
  20. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    A 168 tooth flywheel is REQUIRED ... to work :D
     
  21. '55- '85 Flywheel, part number 3991469.

    -Shiny
     
  22. fryguy
    Joined: Nov 26, 2005
    Posts: 1,235

    fryguy
    Member

    Thanks. I called and talked to Wilcap and they say you can use the smaller 153 tooth flywheel but you would have to drill and tap the block for the small aftermarker starter you need to use. Thanks guys.


    Just another dumber question. The Wilcap adapter has the provisions for the old chevy starter that mounted to the bellhousing before they put them on the block. Is this just for aesthetic value or can you bolt an early chevy starter to it?


    Fryguy
     
  23. You bolt an early 3 bolt starter up to it there. But you gotta use a 168 flywheel.

    -Shiny
     
  24. Hot LZ
    Joined: Jun 14, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Hot LZ
    Member

    Hi All,
    I need a little advice on my ‘39 ford, stock transmission and rear end. I would like to convert it to an open drive shaft but unsure on a few things. Questions #1. How are the rear radius rods mounted ? #2. The hook-up between the drive shaft and the transmission.
    Any input and/or photo’s would be helpful.
    Thank you, Hot LZ
     
  25. Aquaroscoe
    Joined: Apr 13, 2006
    Posts: 315

    Aquaroscoe
    Member

    1) if you use leaf springs, you don't need the radius rods.
    2) You need an open yoke setup from a truck
     
  26. chopt top kid
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 959

    chopt top kid
    Member

    If I were going to run the stock tranny, I'd keep the torque tube. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!
    If you're determined to change it out, the front of the radius rods mount via small bracket to the bottom of the torque tube. The rear of the rods mount to the flange on the axle housing with the same two bottom holes as the backing plates (if it's the same as my '40 rear). You'll have to heat, bend and remount the front of radius rods.
    You'll need an open drive conversion for the rear end, an open drive conversion for the tranny, a driveshaft and a torque arm for the rear axle housing. I'm not sure what you'll need for the stock tranny conversion because I've never done one. Most people change to open drive because they're swapping out the old Ford transmission.
    The Hot Rod Works has most of the parts you'll need, at least check out their website at http://www.hotrodworks.com/. It has lots of pic's and good idea's of how to do it their way.
    Good Luck!
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  27. bonesy
    Joined: Aug 14, 2005
    Posts: 2,999

    bonesy
    Member

  28. great input guys on all the build......on the open drive shaft - if he wanted to go to the 42-47...and thru 51 truck open three speed floor shift and the 42-47 truck center-or Speedways kit to change over the rear end...he could heat the radius rods to bend over for traction./stableizer bars....just saying....
     
  29. roundvalley
    Joined: Apr 10, 2005
    Posts: 1,776

    roundvalley
    Member

    If you do the tranny to open drive, buy VANPELTS book and it will pay for itself. Just finished a '40 Ford tranny to open drive and I would have had a bad time and screwed up without the book. I have extra parts that are in the sale threads. P.M. me if you want some help.
     
  30. bbford
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 7

    bbford
    Member
    from Livonia Mi

    First of all. you put the wrong ( brand x ) motor in it !
     

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