stock A box with universal joint?

so does anyone have any info or can tell if this is possible, a stock A steering box,remove the columnand atach a universal joint at the box to get around the v8 (spark plug and header hits) almost running a shaft parallel to the frame then anotherjointto bring the column up?if this makes sense

 

Anything is possible but use something other than a stock A steering box. If you do you won't like the results.

 

You will of course lose your original light switch/horn rod by doing this modification.

 

John & Pasadena, he had another thread and is using a vega box up front. He wants to use the Model A column but needs info on the installation of a u-joint on the bottom of the A column and how to make a horizontal intermediate shaft hook to the vega.

I am sure it's easy for you two guys..what's the best way?

I did put up pics on how to put a bearing on the bottom of the cut off column, but I was guessing the Model A inside shaft was hollow, and need an idea on a joint that could adapt to that.

I was thinking of making a 2" long X 3/4" OD stepped adapter on a lathe so the smaller step is a tight fit up inside the A hollow shaft to keep it aligned while welding. Then the other end would be a 3/4" single or double D to fit a steering joint??

 

My T has a similar modification to this to get round the flathead, except it's a 37 Lincoln box. The shaft is supported with a bearing.

 

im not using a vega? were did you hear that? i was wanting to us the stock box since it looks good to me, vega doesnt look to cool to me and i dont think it will work anyways, i need it to be in the stock spot(or there abouts) under the frame will hit my wishbones, my car is pretty low. even at stock location the steerign arm has to be modified.

pasadena, i dont care about the horn and all that jazz, steering the car is more important to me.

john, why wont i like the results?i dont mind if it takes effort to turn, thats not an issue either.

 

Unless the box is perfect it will be a pain to steer. Even then it will be heavy /stiff. Worn box it will drive for shit! Been there done that!! Give a thought to a reversed Corvair box on top of the frame and a bit to the rear of the stock location.

 

im almost positive that wouldnt fit, my wishbones are almost parallel to the frame and they are mounted hanging down from a bracket, what ever the box i use is has to mount near the stock place. any more back and it hits my lafe header, under the frame will hit the wishbone at best, let along would be real close to the ground. and cowl looks like would hit hte lake header as well. is there a very small box to tuck on top of the frame right near the rear exhaust port? would have to be small not to hit the lake header tubes.

i hear ya on the box john, iv never driven a stock box so i trust your judgment.

 

If you are willing to run a U-joint, why not run an old time box up front to cross steer to the right side spindle arm.

I had the same issues you do with a big early olds motor on a 32. I used a early 50s Ross box. You could use the 37 up Ford box, easy to find

Here is the back of the motor with old lakes needing rehab

 

haha its okay f&j, i seen the post you got me mixed with..it happends.

that looks like the same amount of room that i have, i think i have a bit less tho. i want to still run side steer. but i get were your going with that. i guess ill keep an eye out for some boxes, i need somethign realy small that can still do side steer.

so realy, the stock a box is not usable? im runing a small block and auto. not sure if that matters

 

The big problem with very early boxes is that they are not designed to return as well as a modern box...that means when you are into a turn and let go of the wheel, it won't turn back on it's own....you have to steer it back.

Older is worm and peg, just a peg that follows the groove in the worm.

Then like 37 up ford, the peg was changed to be a roller following the groove in the worm....much smoother

much newer uses recirculating balls to make it even smoother

 

i see, well half my cars dont return their steering anywyas, im used to that. it never botherd me. steering them back is fine with me.

i do notice my a box when i turn it feels a little 'rough' you could say.

 

29 nash. it doesnt drive. it never has. it was a body and frame. im putting it together as best i can. i can ad a u joint (if its possible) to clear my headers and spark plug. i can almost fit the stock box in the stock location but it hits my lake pipe and spark plug.

if i move the box back and some how use a joint it may clear.BUT i dont know if its aceptable. im out of work and want the car to roll. but i dont want to have major

 

If it's possible, locate somebody with a stock Model A and ask to drive it. Then you'll know how the steering on a Model A feels. I learned to drive a Model A when I was nine, don't recall having any problems with it. I drive the one below on occasion, to me, it drives just fine. have friends that go on tour with their restored ones and I don't hear much complaints on how they stear.......... If it turns out your gearbox is worn, you can buy new internal components from several aftermarket Model A stores.

 

okay nash man, good idea, but i have no idea were any with stock boxes are!

and im running a small block, im askin you guys IF..big IF i get the stock box setup to work some how, will the added pounds effect it? i know stock A's are still drivers,but never seen them with the added weight. altho i seen one with a flat 8 and a stock box. whats your take on it? you guys are the old schoolers, tell me what to do.

 

My AV8 is running a stock "A" box thats been rebuilt it drives OK. My wife drives it quite a bit, on my truck I have done what you are asking with a 40 box the shaft is 3/4" I welded one end of the u-joint to the shaft coming out of the box and drilled the other end and shaft and run a bolt thru it with a bearing at the firewall and column drop

 

okay russ, both are a help there,

iv got your '40' setup going on in my head. so your stock A box is somewhat okay with the weight. so i can do what you did with the 40' box but to my 29 box, bear with me fellas. im just trying to figure out a way of not shelling out dough and making some stuff my self.

 

Here I found a picture of the 40 box with the U-joint set up the upper shaft is 3/4" .250 wall tubing

 

I can't wrap my head around the concept of putting the motor/headers/wishbone all in place without considering steering box placement. It's a combination of all.
My primary focus would be on suspension and steering components, then put everything else where they fit. Seems like you want everything else done, with consideration for steering box placement coming in last place.

 

yeah i see what ya did there russ. thats what im thinkin of doing but with side steer.

nash, im actualy very pleased were my engine is. i had all of that stuff first so i put it in first. i had the engine trans and pipes and rad. everything clears just didnt have a column realy. how was i to know what column to run if i waited to install the engine anyways. with my setup i knew vega or under the frame steering wouldnt work anyhow.

 

Still wouldn't consider running that Model A box. Steering is too important to leave to using something just because you have it. On the fly, a stock A box will do a reasonable job of keeping a car between the lines, kinda. But try to park that damn thing and your in for a world of hell. Pushing it sucks even worse! I still suggest a F1 box with the model a end to bolt it into the stock location. I know it's money, but it's money well spent. The last couple of years I have done 3 otherwise stock model As with this trick so that the owners would actually drive them. It makes that big a difference. By the way, the last F1 box I bought in March of this year cost me 25.00, it was in great shape.

 

well louvers hook me up! ill pay that for a box that will work!


is there a way to shorten the for lack of termanology 'output shaft'? it seems those boxes stick way out. sorry i dont know what that exact part is called.

 

I've got nothing right now, but that is something I come across all the time. Checkyour local Craig's list first off, but just start searching around. They're not uncommon. If I see anything in the next week or so I'll let you know. By "output shaft" do you mean the shaft the steering wheel rides on?

 

I think he is refering to the sector shaft housing and yes they can be shortened

 

i guess the 'sector shaft' the part that sticks out of the side of the box. it looks like its so long that it would push the box against my motor. if the shaft and the housing can be shortend i think it may work.

 

A boxes are pretty primitive... you want a '37-up Ford car or a F-1 or F100 box... way better design and much easier to steer.

They show up in the classifieds here all the time... be patient.

BTW... a few pics of your project would really help

 

okay krooser, and all. i guess ill go with f1 if i can find one. as i said before i cant seem to post pics. i have them in my album tho.

and thanks louvers, been giving me advice for a while now. its much apreaciated.

 

I've said this before, but Chevy vans use a couple U-joints to go almost straight up, bend and go back into the dash, and the first-gen Toronado/Eldorado do about what you want to do, factory. As long as your column is well-supported you should be able to do whatever you need to work around the manifolds. But if you use old Ford parts I'd have them ground for a double-D fitting U-joint and use those.

I've seen some pretty crazy shit along those lines on old race cars, too, usually to put the steering wheel in the middle. But the ones I've helped move around, even with no motor in them, have been a real bear to steer (dead tires probably didn't help, but they were tougher than a modern car with the P/S belt off, and you could feel the bind in the joints on the one car). So I'd want to mock up what you'd like to do with some dowels or 1x2 wood or even cardboard just to get a feel for the angles the joints would be at, and be sure you either can get joints that will work that way, or can adjust the positions of your shaft sections to work within the limits of your U-joints.

Is the reversed Corvair box worth looking at? They have their drawbacks, but may also work in your situation.

 

im not sure rusty if the corvair is small enough, honestly it doesnt look like it would fit,either it would hit the ground or my wishbones if the arm was flipped. iv got pics in my album, i can email pics as well.

well as im hearing folks sayin the stock box just wont cut it. and im here to listen. so i take it i need to look at some other options. even you say its hard to steer so i guess thats nailing the lid on the coffin huh?