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Griffin vs Walker Radiators

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ken1939, May 30, 2010.

  1. AllSteel36
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 560

    AllSteel36
    Member
    from California

    My Griffin is fully welded (for '36 PU)
     
  2. Parts48
    Joined: Mar 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,579

    Parts48
    Member
    from Tucson, Az
    1. Hot Rod Veterans

    Given the very small grille opening..and the limited space of my car..all I could use is a 17"X17"..found a drag race unit made by Griffin with shroud and fan..at Summit..fit perfect.
    Cools the 350SBC in the Jag even here in southern Arizona in summer.
    Runs 195 or so max..has been excellent for almost 4 years.

    Two core 2X1" has cooled better than 4 core 1/4" for me..more surface area. They now make a two core 2X1 1/4" that I'll use if this one needs replace.

    Griffin has been excellent for me..but Walker and others probably work very well too..
     
  3. 32ratsass
    Joined: Dec 14, 2007
    Posts: 258

    32ratsass
    Member

    If it doesn't stay in the radiator long enough to cool down, it probably isn't staying in the engine long enough to heat up.;) A more probable factor concerning running without a thermostat, or restrictors, is cavitation at the pump suction, causing loss of flow. This is normally more prevalent at higher engine speeds. Running a Walker Z, with a 16 inch Spal fan on my avatar with no problems.
     
  4. So is mine.
     
  5. joee
    Joined: Oct 9, 2009
    Posts: 486

    joee
    Member

    i've used PRC alum. in my last 3 hot rods and they work great......
     
  6. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    Great so all I need to do is put a small block chevy in my car an my problems are solved.
     
  7. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    This thread can be closed
     
  8. Domn8r
    Joined: Apr 15, 2006
    Posts: 172

    Domn8r
    Member
    from Helena, MO

    I also use a PRC radiator with very good results. I also have limited room between my radiator and engine so am running a ZIRGO electric fan as a pusher with no problems,
     
  9. likesoldstuff
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 46

    likesoldstuff
    Member

    A radiator with a thicker core/more rows with tube construction that is not in-line may just make your issue worse. Sounds like your issue is air flow or coolant flow, not radiator. You need to get more air moving across the core and or more coolant flow. Slowing the coolant down with a thermostat is a big myth. You wnat to move the coolant AS FAST as you can. A thermostat has one purpose: get the engine up to operating temperature as fast as possible. Period. Think about it. If the coolant is slowed down to spend more time in the rad, then the rest of the coolant is slowed down too, spending more time in the engine to heat up! Faster movement is better. After all, why do so many aftermarket water pump mfgrs make high-flow HD water pumps with bigger impellers? To move more coolant more quickly.
     
    05snopro440 and gimpyshotrods like this.
  10. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Bullshit. :eek: That is just plain wrong.
     
  11. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,771

    bobscogin
    Member

    Explanation, please.

    Bob
     
  12. likesoldstuff
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 46

    likesoldstuff
    Member

    Then why have a water pump(s) at all? If slower is better, just remove the impellers from your water pumps...that should solve it!

    "You can't fix stupid."
     
  13. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Easy enough you move the coolant to fast and it does not cool down effectively. Without throwing out a whole lot of heavy math the easiest way to explain is a quick quote...

    "Under cooling" is what happens when the coolant flows through the engine too quickly. Since one of the jobs of the thermostat is to not only control engine temperature, it also controls the speed of the coolant through the system. If the coolant flows too fast, it does not have time to pick up engine heat and results in what's defined as "undercooling". Since "undercooling" usually does result in "overheating", it's common to think of the two as the same.
    This can be demonstrated with your car's heater. Put a thermometer in the center vent and turn the heat on HIGH and fan speed on LOW. After five minutes or so, note the temperature. Then put the fan speed on HIGH. You will see that the temperature has dropped because the air is moving too fast to pick up all the heat it is capable of carrying. Not enough to call the heater bad, but enough to make a difference.


    Pretty basic stuff really. You can move = the coolant to fast. If you match the components when using a "high flow" water pump you can improve cooling. But just the pump by itself usually won't help at all. It takes a very efficient radiator to cool fast enough for the volume and velocity that they achieve. But beware that high volume pumps can also more easily cause the radiator hose to collpase as well, making the problem worse.
     
  14. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    I didn't say slower was better, there is the correct velocity and volume. But you are saying faster is better which is incorrect. You can move the coolant to fast. Pretty simple thermodynamics. So you are right "You can't fix stupid", it also seems that our schools also can't teach comprehension.
     
  15. likesoldstuff
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 46

    likesoldstuff
    Member

    There certainly are two (at least) schools of thought on this. And, every cooling issue seems to be a bit different. Take a look at what real race cars do. Most use extremely high flow electric or belt driven pumps. Would they slow the flow down to make the engine run cooler? Nope. That's not what works in the real world. Faster water movement = greater volume moving through the core.
    I've sold aftermarket CU and Aluminum radiators for over 20 years and have gotten to know the top engineers at several mfgrs including Griffin and BeCool. Ask them.
     
  16. likesoldstuff
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 46

    likesoldstuff
    Member

    An air cooled VW or Corvair motor would put an end to all this debate!
     
  17. I have never owned a flathead before, but I do remember reading something about rust/scale buildup in the block. The guy in the article would lay some 3/4" or 1" plywood on the floor and then drop the block onto the plywood numerous times to try to dislodge some of the rust. Apparently it worked for him. Bottom line (I gotta be honest, I have not read all of the replies) are you sure the flow through the block is not being hindered by rust/scale?
     
  18. Back to the original question: Another manufacturer that I'd check out in addition to Walker is BrassWorks - they make some really nice products and are easy to talk to. They'll be making the radiator for my 34 coupe -- with the exact dimensions/locations I need for hose outlets, etc . . . as I have a blower pulley to worry about., want dual inlets at the top, only one on the bottom, need a dummy filler next, etc..

    Here is a link:

    http://www.thebrassworks.net/index.aspx
     
  19. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Then we'd be right back to air flow. Which is where it sounds to me like this problem is.
     
  20. likesoldstuff
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 46

    likesoldstuff
    Member

    We do agree on that Z-dude. Another $500 radiator ain't gonna fix anything unless he gets some air goin' across that core via a Corvette or some such electric fan with big, wide, high-pitch blades.
     
  21. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,771

    bobscogin
    Member

    I doubt it. The debate would evolve into whether or not you can move air too fast through cooling system.

    Bob
     
  22. Dirty2
    Joined: Jun 13, 2004
    Posts: 8,903

    Dirty2
    Member

    I always get Walker but the last 3 I have bought the neck where the cap go does not seal . I have to get at least 3 caps (stant) to get one to fit. I also have had 4 0r 5 that the mounting feet are off an inch ! I will try another company next but not alumn.
     
  23. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,771

    bobscogin
    Member

    Instead of the vent, put the thermometer on the back seat and see which scenario bring the cabin temperature to a comfortable level more quickly. I think your analogy fails to distinguish between temperature and BTUs, the quantity of heat. The temperature of the air coming out of the heater on low may be higher than with the fan on high because there's insufficient air flow to dissipate the heat, but the high fan setting will fill the car with warm air more quickly. Short of water pump impeller cavitation, moving the water at high speed can't be all bad. It brings down the "round trip" time of any given water molecule through the system, getting it back into the engine to grab a few more BTUs. :)
     
    Slicks likes this.
  24. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    I've used Griffin/Walker/Brassworks/US Radiator over the years and have good results with all of them. Properly set up with the right fan/shroud they have all worked. My last flathead had a Walker 3 inch shortened Z line with a Cooling Components fan and shroud, 7 lb cap, 4X3 5/16 bore and stroke, mild Isky cam, 8.5 compression, 409 waterpump kit, GMC Bubbas converted Chevy distributor, 180 degree stats and couldn't get it over 180. I may have missed it but did anyone ask what the bore is on this guys flathead? Did he clean it properly when having it rebuilt? Does he have his timing set right? The fact that his radiator pukes means it's to full to hold the water once it expands with heat, not that is boiling. Sometimes in the radiator business thicker is not always better. You gotta have airflow whether stopped or at speed and if you ain't got it now your really in trouble with a thicker unit.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2010
  25. Brahm
    Joined: Oct 4, 2001
    Posts: 487

    Brahm
    Member

    I'd check to make sure you didn't wire the electric fan up backwards (we've all done it), and if not I'd look at maybe replacing the fan if it's not pulling enough air with a higher CFM model. I'd also check how you have it mounted to the raidtor make sure it's snug..also which electric fan are you using, if it's one without a built in shroud it's not going to do it. (avoid this fan) [​IMG]


    While I don't know much about flatheads and cooling I'd check your oil for chocolate milk to make sure you don't have any leaks in your headgasket. I'd also flush your coolant make sure you are running a proper mixture if you run to much coolant and not enough water it will run hot.

    On a side note, while i've never ran walker I've used several griffens and always had great results.
     
  26. 32ratsass
    Joined: Dec 14, 2007
    Posts: 258

    32ratsass
    Member

    Using the logic being presented here, concerning the idea that the water doesn't have enough time to get rid of the heat if it's traveling too fast through the radiator, we can safely assume that if you have too large of fan, or if you go down the road too fast, the air won't have enough time by the radiator to pick up the heat from the coolant.:rolleyes: Whatever the general concensus turns out to be, we've pretty well "beat this one to death". Now, on to other discussions.
     
  27. chop32
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 1,077

    chop32
    Member

    Maybe its not the radiator causing the sealing problem, maybe its the quality control (or lack of) on the caps.
     
  28. Dirty2
    Joined: Jun 13, 2004
    Posts: 8,903

    Dirty2
    Member


    I measured the depth and they were cocked . Still a good radiator ..
     
  29. Steves32
    Joined: Aug 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,280

    Steves32
    Member
    from So Cal

    From Griffin's website

     
  30. Does it say that is the ONLY method of fixing ?
    Or is it an added feature for insurance?
     

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