+ one! Has anyone ever tried using a kevlar disc for friction? I'd thought about an old clutch disc, but the asbestos content would be kinda a buzzkiller! I've always jus' used dead 60 grit production discs on my 9'' grinder for much the same result as a "magical & new and improved" shrinking disc. '' The icecream truck in his neighborhood plays Helter-Skelter "
that's cool, good for you guys....... Ken's a nice guy as well. i have/had vespas and it has always been a pain to work on the cowls on a table top. i like your stand that you made. what's going on with the Vespa on the ground?
John, Thanks for coming on and giving my post a little credibility. I've always thought that hot rodders should look out for one another (unless they were in competing businesses) and from past exposure I learned about the sunchaser deal being (politely) "a little overpriced and hyped". That said the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" certainly applies here. I suppose bringing up the Jim Jones "have a drink of KoolAid" comparison is of little value when your in the presence of "belivers/followers". Rock on guys. Frank
Sometimes I just dont get the mentality of the HAMB. What do "magic wands", "leading horses to water", "magical new and improved" and "Kool-Aid" have anything to with this post? Nobody is claiming any magic, or voodoo, long lost hidden secrets, lost art, secret passwords, secret methods or anything of the sort. Whats wrong with you fuckers? It's a simple post about hammer and dollying a Vespa cowl (95% of the work) and using a heat disk/metal disk/friction disk (what ever the fuck you wanna call it) for the last 5% and making it look way better than the idiot who had slathered bondo over their shitty body work. Thats all it is. What the hell does Jim Jones and Kool-Aid have anything to do with this post? fab32 you claim to be looking out for other hot rodders, but where are you looking out and from whom? Did you crawl out of you moms vagina with a hammer and dolly and know how to work metal? None of us did, so a few of us added to our skills by taking a class from somebody you don't like and that makes us Kool-Aid drinkers. How is that looking out for a fellow hot rodder? You made the claim we should all be looking out for each other then call us kool aid drinkers in the next sentence. There is more than one method to straightening a panel or skinning a cat, but the end result is what matters right? So is my end result substandard simply because I did not do it the way you would do it?
The Vespa in the back ground is my new toy, and turns out it's covered in Bondo, and the engine was seized up, so the engine is torn down and being rebuilt and the same goes with the body.
Hey, Why not watch both Mr Kelly's & Mindover You Tube viedos, for nada, and put the money you save into tools? Trying to learn ''real'' metal work off a viedo is like trying to learn to play the gee-tar by readin'a book, sooner or later your gonna have to break a sweat and get dirty! " There ain't no better educator than experience "
hey buick59 how much was kens class ? because i would love to understand metal more with a hands on class and people to point stuff out. thx for the post
p.s i'm cool with a wand or whatever if it will help bend my old sheetmetal back towards righteousness .
Shrinking disks are great tool but it is a finishing tool. 90per is hammer dolly work, then when you get it close you finish it with a shrinking disk. That's how I use them anyways. Getting it close with a hammer and dolly is not that hard if you have a understanding on how the metal will react when you are hammering on it. That last 10per is the hard part and that is where the shrinking disk comes in handy. When you are using one you want to hold it as flat as posiable, When running over the panel it will only be making contact with the high spots. Work in small areas, then spray it with soapy water. You only need to work an area long enough to cause a little steam when sprayed. You do not want to over do it. Then you just watch it blend together. You also might have to do some bumping during this to bump up any lows. I try to do that in the beginning but I always find more during the process. I don't know about the friction disk, I have never used one. On my shrinking disk, I will clean it periodically with some 80G sand paper. I also run a bar of soap on it while using it. It will help it from gawling the metal. I have mad respect for David (MindOver) and I understood where he was coming from and do not think he deserved a lashing for what he said. Great job on your panel, You did it right!! Body filler has it's place but it has been abused for years.
No he will buzz off.....He posts on our thread an insult, nobody on here ever said this was the only method you need to know such as he insinuated......then blatently tries to sell something.... Btw you will NEVER see me try to metal shape with a fucking purse! fab32 how is something overpriced! Do you ever value your time? And if so, why would you value yourself at so little? Some people like to earn their living by teaching a SKILL that they have perfected thru many years....Go tell Fay Butler or Ron Covell or Lazze that they too are overpriced. It really is sad that someone would complain that someone elses SKILL is overpriced. But if you wanna do shit for dirt ass cheap, when you learn how to make a custom body let me know, ive got $5 ill give you for it
Although David's (Mindover) comment sounded a little harsh, he is a true metal master. I bought his DVD a while ago, and I am very impressed. It features step-by-step instructions on how to do almost anything with hand tools only (I don't think he ever uses a shrinking disc, hence the aversion).
Wow You have 4 posts and this is your reply. You slap two guys in the face that have contributed so much to this site. That makes you a ass---- in my book. FNG I have some advice for you look around a little before you blow your trap again. Sorry to take the thread ot
There are two people in this thread that used insults and you are one of them. I am flattered that you seem to know I used an old leather purse as a shot bag. This is a great way to save money for those who want to try metal shaping without breaking the bank to get started. Or rookies can be convinced to spend lots of money on tools before they even know if they are going to stick with it. I own 5 shot bags, and the purse actually worked better when stretching the existing metal on a car to make a flare. Nobody in this thread insulted or belittled anyone else's skills except perhaps yourself. You may grow out of this phase or maybe not, but the truth is plain to see in your posts. You might want to develop a slightly thicker skin. A couple of the metal shapers you name could build a whole car using a claw hammer, a piece of flat steel plate, a glove full of sand a hub cap mounted to a grinder, and very little else. And they would certainly not turn up their noses at any tool no matter how inexpensive, if it does the job. It is nice that you support Sunchaser Tools, but don't expect to start a thread (or claim ownership of one started by someone else) and not have other people voice their opinions, some of which you will disagree with. Some people may seem a little blunt in the way they express themselves with the written word. This is no excuse to go off like you did. I doubt you will be around very long if you keep it up. John www.ghiaspecialties.com
WOW!!! I can't believe the shit storm. My grandfather told me "you can always tell if what you said rings true by the reaction it gets. The more violent the reaction the truer it is." No one likes to think they have been taken advantage of and I guess the responses here prove it. Take heart men, your not the first to have your wallet lightened by a carnival barker. I only say this because you paid good money for what can be had for free via the internet and the generosity of a lot of talented individuals. One more time..................rock on. Frank, ruffling coats one feather at a time
Took my wife to breakfast ..............I'm back (you know your thrilled) One thing that's still missing..................HOW MUCH IS THE SUNCHASER COURSE? It's been asked a few times ...........and no response. Could it have something to do with feeling "I can't believe I ate (bought into)the whole thing"? So, at the risk of being redundant; HOW MUCH WAS THE SUNCHASER COURSE? ANYONE? BTW, the comparison with Ron Covel ,Lazze, etc is lame at best. They teach you how to make something from just a flat sheet of metal..............not how to make a fuck up all better again. Frank
What a classic Hambush. Some internet troll looking to ad to his 10,000 plus count hijacks a thread about some guys who straightened metal. All because he does not like the methods they used. Good god get a life. He mr fab32, It's Memorial day weekend. The lack of response is simply due to the fact Im out enjoying life with my family rather than drooling behind a key board on a holiday weekend waiting to argue. You truly are a clod who's making assumptive statements with no possession of the facts. If your so good why don't you offer classes and sell and patent your knowledge? In life there are those that do, and those that talk about it. Im done with this bullshit, sick of Hamb assholes who have nothing better to do other than try to boost their ego by shiting on what other people are attempting to do.
If he would give respect he would get respect. He contributed nothing to this thread other than a negative statement. How is that helping others? Im done.
Mike, I know you AND Frank,(fab32). You got him all wrong, his exerience and sage advice carries a lot of weight with myself and many others. John K, sorry for passing along semi-erroneous info. metalcrafting is a skilled trade, when you get anything of that level be it chefs or tinbashers there will always be conflicting opinions at even the highest levels. I think most of us realize there are multiple people, classes,techniques that are ALL good.
Thanks for watching my back Trent...............appreciated. Unfinished business: How much was the Sunchaser course? Anyone? Thought I'd ask as I'm sure there are others who are curious...........probably too shy to speak up. Frank
Why are you guys so angry? This is a fun hobby. It could be that I'm un-educated, but when it comes down fighting words, it stops being fun. IMHO.
I think you over reacted to my comment!!! I was not intending to be rude or flippant. I was just trying to point out that in order to remove dents and damage it is a little more involved than simply running a disc over the panel. John Kelly is as experienced as anyone in the use of these discs and I am sure that he would agree that it is necessary to bump out the worst of the damage and to planish the panel too. Thanks John for your comment. I had no intention of putting anyone's efforts down. David
For the record I used to order from and Sell the Sunchaser disk. After reading John Kellys posts here I went out and made one from a stainless thrift store kitchen cast off for less than $5 Nice work on the vespa Mike.
The class costs $865 for 3 days, inclding breakfast snacks, and good lunches. Typical class days are a least 10 hours. Its not set up that way, but Ken won't leave until everyone is finished and happy for the day. I took Sun Chasers class. A little back ground about me, the most work I've ever done on a car is an oil change and changed a flat tire. So to say I'm an amateur is an understatement. I saw Sunchasers advertisement, and since I'm having a Merc built, I thought I'd take some classes, and maybe do some work on my own car, one day. I was very impressed with Kens teaching technique, and the explanations where put in a such a way, a car moron like myself could understand, and actually do a pretty good job. Here are some pictures of my 1950 Merc Fender Skirts, before and after.. Sorry you can't really see how good in the end they came out, but trust me you'd never know there was a huge ding down the middle. I can't say as to whether Kens class is great or not because I've never done any body work on a car, or taken anyone elses classes, but the very experienced guys in my class were impressed. The guys loved the class. So Its a Huge thumbs up from me and everyone that was in my january class. Oh By the way, I still havent put any of it to good use yet, other than these fender skirts. So if any of you guys need some help, I'm available....
It is amazing all of these classes a person can find around the country. When I bought Fournier's book as a kid I bet there were a fraction of the metalshapers we have today.
Until Ron's book came out, in the early 1980's, there was almost no information out there. There were a few classes being held in the late 1980's and more in the 1990's. The metal shaping movement didn't really take off until 2000, when the first internet group started. Now there are a lot of people that search out some information to do the project they are working on and then move on. Actually there is some good information out there now.
A magic wand is really handy too, but it does take a lot of practice as well as anything else. Just sayin.
The Jalopy Journal
