Inspired by Ed Roth, Plowboy and Racerdad

I look forward to your posts everyday now!!!! Keep up the great job.

 

MotionNova, cool, glad to see there's some interest in the nitty-gritty stuff pertaining to cutting up a car. For me it doesn't get much better than this! Since it's my design/concept on this particular car, it's very rewarding to see there's some interest in the build process too. Living here in Idaho, there's not really any avenues for going beyond the normal results of an autobody experience. I constantly read articals, purchase videos and am usually disappointed in the lack of detail being passed along concerning the mindset involved with a project like this. I'm sure there many reasons why that is.
The Hamb, being a forum of freeflowing thoughts both from the thread starter and back from the readers of the post, allows question and answer-type dialog to occur. There's really nothing else like it for someone trying to figure out the why's and wherefore's of any particular build or the components that are contained therein.

I have a knack for doing this kind of thing.
When it gets to the transmission overhaul, I too will be asking questions if the factory manual doesn't explain what I want to know. That's the great part about the Hamb. There are experienced builders of all kinds on here willing to share their knowledge.
Welding, metal work, standard autobody proceedures and paint work are areas that I have a certain level of experience in and am willing to post about. It is my pleasure to trade my posts for threads that contain information of equal quality in the areas that I have less experience in.
What a deal and where else can you find one of equal value?!

Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

10 days gone by... Any new work to share?

Jeff

 

Hotrodjeep, sorry to disappoint, got tangled up in a '54 Ford that was supposed to be simple sheetmetal repair. Now it's rust cutout as well as a crossmember R&I! That's what happens when you work on old, 'driven hard, put up wet' hotrod stuff! I'm hoping to be done this week, maybe Wednesday ...

On the Cutlass build, I've just been informed that the MGB donor is on the trailer and ready to be delivered! That's a plus!
I also realized that there is no 'problem' with the angle of incidence on my front axle. I may have to re-do/raise the back mount for my split wishbones to change that angle, I was getting my information all tangled up regarding the spring-mount and the 7degrees that the axle needs to be clocked at. On most spring mounted axles, the angle of the spring determines the angle that the axle is mounted at. Not so with a spring behind mount, that uses spring perches that are inserted through the 'split-bones' and allowed to pivot. Then, what determines the axle angle is the height of the rear mount for the split wishbones. I really can't determine mine until I acheive 'ride height'. Right now the chassis has a rake to it. My target is 7" of clearance under the frame at the lowest point. For the type of chassis/altered wheelbase that I've got, I think that's low enough for my purposes.

I'm looking forward to the mock-up phase too! That will give a much clearer view to all of us concerning what I'm trying to create! I did get some more tubing for the gas-tank support structure and another sheet of 18ga cold rolled steel for panel shaping as well as 24' of 3/16" cr/rs to make a form to shape the sheetmetal to. It should really go pretty smoothly, once I get started! Right now I don't see any areas of mystery body-wise other than the roof, which will just take a bit of imagination to pull together.

I'll get started as soon as I can!
Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

Dan, I went back and looked at your original pics of the chassis... Unless those perches are fully shouldered and mounted in bushings in the wishbones, they are not designed to pivot. They merely allow you to set the angle of the perch to match the angle of the spring so the shackles don't bind. With a buggy spring axle on 'bones, there is no "right" spring angle for all conditions, because the outer perches are traveling in an arc as the axle moves up and down. The spring, obviously, isn't...

With the spring on top of the axle and original Henry wishbones, the spring has to be set at the perch (pin) angle to get the shackles on. The caster angle of the kingpins is the most important setting. As you have it built, the spring pad in the crossmember should be parallel to the centerline of the wishbone at ride height (wishbone level, spring pad level, etc.).

If you REALLY want to get technical, pull the spring out and run the axle through what you think would be normal suspension travel. Measure the wishbone angle at ride height and full compression and set the spring pad halfway in between (i.e. bones travel from 0 - 4 deg, spring pad should be at 2 deg.). This will cause the least amount of shackle bind under normal operation. Having said that, there are probably a thousand rods out there where this wasn't given any thought, and guys are enjoying the hell out of 'em....

 

Exwestracer, my perch bolts are shouldered and mounted in bushings as I did intend them to pivot through the arc of the actuation! I also want them to eventually have castelated nuts with holes for cotterpins to maintain just the right tension to allow for movement under load.
(Right now I don't have 'final' hardware on anything, so there's still lots of room for improvement).

You are also correct that there are many hotrods out there that didn't even consider that the spring would acheive some amount of bind as the suspension articulated. They still work and people still drive them. I just wanted to have less bind. It's not perfect but I don't live in a perfect world, so I think it'll be more than adequate for my needs.

I do appreciate you reexamining my work/theories of how I want this car to function, I do try to do my best but I don't know everything and am more than willing to reexamine my own thoughts for errors.

Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

Somehow, I knew you were gonna say that...haha. Glad to hear it was well thought out as usual!

 

Ok, guys you've had to wait extra time since the last real progress and you are waiting to see some actual mockup of the parts! Well, me too! Ha

Today as usual I have a full plate. Al and I have made good progress on his '54 Ford which needed additional work due to less than stellar planning by previous builders, light accident damages with poor repairs, rust etc. We are far enough along that Al will now be doing more on that project and I will be doing less. I have some mechanical work to do this AM, then after lunch It's initial mockup time! (This will have to be quick and dirty, as I'm supposed to be starting to build another set of Desoto grille teeth. I figure if I can do the mockup and still get some of the grille teeth cutout I can start forming them tomorrow and everything will be fine)!

Al has the donor MGB on a trailer and ready to bring over. I'm holding off on that for now, until his '54 is completely back together and down the road, so that won't be part of this initial mockup.

What I'm going for today is, tack together a complete door opening and install a door in the hole. This will be positioned in relation to the firewall/step in the frame, (which is about where the bellhousing bolts on). The new back of the doorjamb will be positioned/latched to the door and tacked to the backpanel of the cockpit. The new narrowed 'turtledeck' will be slid into position. I'm also going to try to get the front sheetmetal set, hood and a fender.

This will all be just for lookin' at! It will have minimum bracing, wood blocks for spacers etc.

It will give us a chance to see if all of my taste is in my mouth! Ha

There will be no attempt at a roof at this time, just the basic profile of a topless car.

I'm sure things will run late, as they usually do. So, don't expect pictures to be posted today. (I do better with computors when I've had a good night's sleep).

I think I'm anticipating this mockup as much as you are, it's been hard to wait while some other loose ends got tied up.

Today is the day!
Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

Oh great! The overcast skys are leaking! Arrgh!
I'll do the best I can to have something to look at. No promises. Unfortunately since this mockup is dealing with one whole side of the car, I have to do it outside of the shop where I can get at it with the yard hoist.
Not really bitchin' about the rain, just the possibility of yet another delay! ( my wife would be happier if I stuck with the grille teeth)! LOL

 

We all wait in anticipation...

This is definitely my favourite build thread on HAMB.

 

Can´t wait to see this.

 

I agree, can hardly wait for more pictures and updates.... keep it up!!!

 

Sorry Guys, due to weather issues and a cam change that turned into an engine R&I, I'm even further behind than usual!
No Pictures today, gotta play catchup big-time! It's again scheduled to rain for the next two/three days off and on, it may be the weekend before I can do the mockup. I'm so sorry to put this off, but I do have to make some income to keep doing this at all.

I'll make it up to you with a mockup, as soon as I can!

Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

This week has just been off the rails! I have made progress but it hasn't been on the Cutlass project. The weather has been rainy or windy or both! Tomorrow however, is supposed to be rainy in the morning and then decent after noon.
So, barring any unforseen complications, I'm going for a mockup of the Cutlass in the afternoon/evening hours. If all goes well, I'll post pictures either Saturday night or Sunday afternoon.
My apologies for the repeated delays.

I do believe that the wait will be worth it!
Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

Hi all! It's 7:30AM on Saturday morning, I see blue sky! There's a slight breeze but not the 20-30mph stuff that has been almost a constant this week. No signs of the predicted rain?
It will be a good day for a mockup!
Yes, there are other things that probably should take precident over the Cutlass, but C'mon! I been waitin' for this day a whole lot longer than any of you?! Ha, Get in line!
I will have pictures, today!

Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

Yay!!!! - have you seen that this thread has been viewed over 10,000 times now!!! Not that there is any pressure

 

Can't wait to see more. Love the idea of it. No need for Sorrys, life happens take your time and do it right.

 

Hi Guys! Thought I'd be able to post pictures last night, I was too tired to be able to figure out how so, here they are this AM!
Enjoy!



This first picture is of the new turtledeck, sitting on the chassis. I say sitting because it doesn't fit! That is really no surprise, as the width of the turtledeck is 41" at the narrowest part, the chassis is 42 1/2".



This view gives you some idea of where I want it to sit in relation to the back axle.



It looks weird and like it's not a part of the car, just sitting on there!

 

Just a couple more views of how it sits on there.


Now, here's what I think needs to happen. First I need an 1 1/2" taken off of each side of the deck, (that used to be the inside of the trunk).

 

I've marked out two, 3/4" wide strips of masking tape on each side of the deck to denote the 1 1/2" I need to remove for clearance.


Here, I've added a 1/2" tape to widen the cutout to a 2"x3". What I intend to do here is, extend the rear step in the frame up, by inserting a piece of tubing into the existing frame, angling it in so that the upper part of the addition is within the new width of 39 1/2".


This last picture shows how much lean the new addition has to acquire to get there from here!
The new back frame rail will be higher than the original, from a minimum of 4' to a maximum of 7". I don't know what exactly that will turn out to be yet.

 

This view shows the continuation of the angled vertical piece where the new addition will be added.


So, now we have both sides layed out in tape. it gives you some idea of how much is being removed from the width of the deck.

I've known all along that the rearend of the car sat too high. It was really appearant when the new turtledeck was sorta in position. Looked like it was waitin' for a flood!
Here, I've removed the stock springs and substituted some screw jacks (for leveling trailers). This is closer to the intended ride height of 7". In this picture we are at 9" of clearance under the chassis right under/just before the kick up.

 

New lower ride height as viewed from the side.




Here we have removed the rear wheel to have room to execute the cuts with the plasma.

 

Sorry but this is the last picture of the cuts that I have for today, I appearantly neglected to take pictures of all of the metal removed, it's quite a bit more than is showing here!


I will take additional pictures of the cut area tomorrow, when I get back to the project.
Sundays I spend with my wife, so not much gets done on projects on Sundays! Gotta keep her happy!

 

Oh yeah, here's how it looks with the new turtledeck in more or less the right place!

Yeah, it's starting to look pretty sexy here! Ha


Look at that cute little butt!

From the side, there may be some adjustment fore/aft for the turtledeck, That remains to be seen ... It will depend on where exactly where the backpanel needs to locate, again fore/aft on the chassis ...



This last picture is the last one for today! and it's not really as fun to look at as the last three. It's a shot of the distance from the trunk deck to the top of the turtledeck. That space is where the new frame rails will be located. If I had to do all of this again, and knew that I would be building this Cutlass Roadster thingie, I'd have made the back half of the frame from scratch. Remember this project started out to be an RPU. The bed width would have allowed me to use the trunk deck as it was, no narrowing needed.
As it is, I'm carving out a lot of the original structure back there! What I put back in has to be robust enough to hold up to the weight of the car during suspension articulation as well as being somewhat safe in a rearend accident! Not a small order.

By the time I'm done removing trunk deck, there may not be much left! The important stuff that was my motivation for reusing the back end of the original Cutlass unibody, was largely the mounting system for the four-bar rear axle mounts. I'd always thought the springs and shocks were poorly mounted/gobby looking. The arms for the four-bar are just pressed steel, again not attractive at all!
I'm thinking that if I continue to cut/remove more Cutlass structure I may want to rethink the whole rear structure. Sometimes it's better to do all of your mockups and then decide what stays.
If I do fabricate a new rear section for this frame, it will be a lot easier than guessing at what I may need for width/height etc. With all of the mockups done all of those questions will be answered.

I'll have to think on that ...
Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

Saturday morning looked good, blue skys etc. It soon turned overcast and cool/breezy. I had a holdover project from Friday that I THOUGHT I'd have done by noon.
Think again! I wasn't done until almost 6:00pm.

The pictures I've posted are the results of 3 1/2 hours of frantic activity! ha I NEEDED to have something done, not only to post here on the Hamb, but this has been a tough week with many frustrations (the last of which had me really pissy through most of the day).
I appreciate all of your positive feedback for this project and the fact that you are very forgiving when my proposed scheduled slips a bit.

I'm hoping to have time to do the door/doorjamb assembly this week and get that mounted on the chassis, as well as the backpanel. Al will be bringing me my donor car when we get his truck back together and it leaves.
I'm looking forward to both events!

Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

Ya done good! Look forward to the next installment (pun intended).

 

64 Wildcat, glad you like the backend!

I'm thinking that the next phase, which will be the door assembly will go fairly quickly, (relatively speaking). It will also locate the backpanel and determine the overall height of the body of the car. It's not a real tall profile from the bottom of the rocker panel to the top of the door, about 26" is all.
Add another 7-8" of ground clearance and you have a car that's only 33-34" tall at the top of the door!
Add a windshield height of 12-14" and you are still only 4'. As of now the roof design is still rather nebulous, it needs to be somewhat 'T'-like, but I don't have that all nailed down, yet.

Having the door/backpanel located will give me a final fore/aft measurement for the turtledeck as well as a corresponding height. With those numbers filled in, I will be able to do the replacement framerails, and solid everything up including the torque boxes for the deck lid torsion bars. The torque boxes will be incorporated into the replacement framerail construction. Even if i decide to replace the entire factory back section of the frame, I'd just reuse the upper framerails that I will soon fabricate.

I think that Al will deliver the MGB donor Tuesday or Wednesday. With that here, I can determine the final width of the firewall/hinge post area, that will be exciting!
I'm really looking forward to having both door assemblies on the car, backpanel in place, turtledeck on and the windshield/firewall area defined! Having the entire cockpit together will be a Big 'RED LETTER' Day! Ha!

Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

It's Memorial Day, Monday AM. Here in Idaho it's overcast and cool, might make it to the lo 60's? There is no wind so, I'm thinking that today might be a good day to do at least one door assembly.
As I mentioned before, I don't think it will take all that long to do. If the first side goes smoothly and doesn't take all day I'll do both sides! Having both sides located fore/aft on the chassis will by nessessity locate the back panel, which will also locate the turtledeck.
The firewall width is immaterial at this point and I can just use a generic measurement of 48" as a starting point which will later be adjusted to fit the MGB windshield.

So instead of sittin' on the couch watchin' old movies, I'm going to have a great day, of fabricating and remembering those near and dear who have gone before me. Everybody has their own way of remembering those who have fallen in War or passed on in untimely events or just plain gotten old and their body has worn out. For me at least a few of those I will be remembering will seem a little closer, as I do my 'thing' in the shop.
Have a Great Day, whether it's with Family or traveling or just having a bar-b-q at home, remember and Celebrate those lives that have been cut short!

Livin' the dream!
Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

OK, I hope you are ready for this! I not only got one door assemble together, but two! I also removed all of the inner structure that I thought might come in handy for the backpanel, it just turned out to be in the way! We then cut out about 10" of width at the firewall. While we were at it, we also fit up the turtledeck for a look-see!
So, I took pictures of all of those parts as a static mockup on the floor of the shop. That allowed Al & I to define some cross members that will not only hold the complete body to width but they will also act as supports to hold the body as an assembly above the chassis at the right level, (ride height).
I'm in for a quick dinner before going back out to cut those crossmembers and install them. It's my goal to get the crossmembers in tonight the body assembly lifted and the chassis slid underneath for the first time!
I doubt that I will have the energy, (or clearity of mind) to deal with posting pictures tonight, but if I am successfull, you will see some really cool looking pictures in the morning!

Have a Great evening!
Dan Stevens
dba, Steelsmith

 

Look forward, as always to seeing 'em.

 

Finished dinner yet?