i got a three on tree in my 48 ford sedan two door, with a flat six, what do i need to put a 3 speed on the floor into it, will a flat eight trans work or do i need a flat six trans? what parts do i need to convert it
I'm no early Ford transmission expert, but I'm quite sure that you need to use a main case designed for the flathead six, so a floor shift three speed from a 226 powered F-1 is the only possibility I can think of. You'd have to convert it to closed drive, but the upside is that you would have no problem selling the open drive pieces to someone else who wanted to go in that direction. That is, unless, you'd be happy with a Hurst floor shift conversion for your sideshift trans.
It should have a closed drive line already. Just find a 39 floor shift gear box, or a floor shift kit to bolt to the back of your 3 speed.
Engine to bell bolt pattern is different, trans are the same. I have a 3 speed from a six behind my flatty V8. Currently trying to figure out how to mount a floor shifter to it.....
It seems like there is a thread on here about the home made floor shifters that eventually evolved into manufactured Hurst type shifters. I just can't remember the title. The Hurst 4-speed shifters evolved from the earlier 3-speed set ups. If a guy can find a 3-speed shifter mechanism, he can fabricate the mounts and shift linkage rods to fit just about any side shift transmission made.
shelby, do you know which flat 6 you have? As everyone said I think it is the older "G" 226, but it might be the newer "H" 226. If it is the "G" and it has a "G" trans there may be another possibility. The "H" 226 in the trucks starting in '48 had the adapter to the V8 trans. In other words in '48 the I6 trucks got the V8 trans. This would allow you to buy a '39 toploader already setup for the torque tube, I think it is much harder to find the toploader "G" case. I have one of these adapters in my garage right now, I bought an "H" I6 for the trans and parted out the motor. I can take picts of what I have if you are interested. I don't officially have the adapter for sale but I am not going to keep it.
well, how do i find out what type of flat six i have? all i want to do is to keep my original flat six in it and put a floor shifter in it, without putting anything newer in it i want to stick with the 30-40s trans in it and make it easy, hehe
The letters are based on a casting on the head and block. The casting should start with a number then a letter -- the letter will tell you which series it is (the number is the first year of production/casting of that part). I think Ford's number for a head is 6050 so that number should be in there. Another thing to look for is the distributor. The "H" has the distributor on the drivers side about mid block and the "G" is on the front of the motor. The "G" 6 cyl and V8 trans are very similar. I have not seen a six yet in person and have only seen poor quality pictures. The bells are different though as stated above. The main difference that I know about is that the six has a hump in the bell on the driver's side. The V8 bell is just about round. Here is the best pict that I have found so far. This is from an ebay ad, the guy posted the serial number from the top of the trans so I was able to verify that it was a '47 1/2 ton six cyl ("G"). Note the hump on the driver's side. </a>
Ford pickups went to open drive in 1942 so any pickup transmission from 42-up is open drive which will not work in a closed drive passenger car, 48 and earlier.
Thanks, that's basically what I was suggesting. Thanks for putting the 2 together for me I just don't know enough about the cars to know exactly what a '48 is supposed to have -- most of my research has been the trucks. Did Ford keep the "G" in the cars just like they kept the 59A V8 for '48 while the new trucks got the "H" and the 8BA V8? I have also never been able to confirm that Ford made a separate car (sideshift) trans for the "G" motor. Assuming that the cars had a "G" style trans as well, did Ford discontinue the car "G" style trans in '48 like they did with the trucks? From what I know about Ford though, I would assume that the OP has the "G" motor and and the "G" trans. I am trying to give him enough info to know for sure. The next unknown would be if the "H" adapter will bolt to the "G" motor. I would assume so. This question has come up before over on the FTE forum as people would get confused about the "H" trans. There is a fellow that thought that the "H" had the same trans as the "G" because his '46 truck has the stock, numbers matching "G" trans but has an "H" engine. The consensus is though that the "H" uses the V8 style trans. I have seen several "H" motors (as well as the one I own) and can confirm the V8 trans. So it is my assumption that the fellow with the "H" motor and "G" trans has the "G" adapter bolted to the "H" motor, suggesting the adapters are swappable between the motors. So I believe the easiest swap would be the "H" adapter and the '39 toploader ('39 cars and '39-'41 light trucks or an older car/truck with the older gear sets) Although if the OP can find a "G" toploader from a 1/2 ton he should have all the parts needed to convert the open drive to a closed drive with his original trans.
yes yes yes...find a...should be 37-39 floor shift for a bolt in...later if he wants to go with an open drive...42 to 50 Ford truck...yes boys...they offered it up that far...
so what is the difference between and open drive and closed drive. and i want to thank you guys again for helping me, im just getting into street roding.
Open drive(shaft) is like a modern car where you actually see the driveshaft. (In)closed drive(shaft) is an extension from the front of the rear axle (the torque tube) that pivots on the tail of the transmission itself and carries the driveshaft inside and completely hidden. It also locates the rear axle in several planes.
Open drive top shift cases are the same as closed drive in the years produced. The tail shaft is different on open drive and is splined to fit a slip yoke plus the rear housing that bolts to the back of the case is set up for slip yoke & has the oil seal for one. The case can be converted with parts from a 3-speed side shift transmission to turn it into a closed drive set up.
Ford switched to the H series six in the fall of 1947. I think the easiest way to tell them apart is to look at the distributor. If it sticks out of the side of the block and looks like a normal distributor, it's an H series. I have done some research in the Ford parts books on the differences in the transmissions. This is only as accurate as the info in Ford's "Green Bible". I bought an original version, but in the years since I've found it for downloading on the web. To use the late V8 block with the existing transmission, Ford used a cast or stamped metal partial bellhousing on truck applications. The 6 and 8 versions were not the same, according to what I can tell. The transmission case for '41-'48 V8 cars is the same as for the 1948 I6 (p/n 01A-7005). The '41-'47 I6 transmission case is not the same (1GA-7005). '49-'50 Ford used the same case for everything without overdrive (8A-7006A). The block for the '41-'47 I6 is not the same as the block for the '48-'50 I6. Clutch "less disk", clutch disk, clutch release bearing, and clutch shaft pilot bearing are all the same part numbers for six or V8 cars in 1948. Side note - I'm finding LOTS of things that were '48 only in the I6 world. So, to put the '48 trans behind my '48 H series 6 there had to be a piece functionally equivalent to the "truck" bellhousing adapter but with proper holes to bolt to the I6 block. I haven't found part numbers on my engine yet, but my parts diagram shows a flat plate that bolts to the block and a "clutch housing" (7HA-6392) which bolts onto that and looks much like the more famous truck V8 stamped bell (8BA-6392 I think). Not sure if that helped you with the floor shift conversion, but it might help with the interchange questions. I'm interested in what you come up with for a final solution. I started looking into this stuff in the hope of doing a T5 swap someday.
Shelby, this is good info. Again though it is researched so you need to make sure that it is true for your car. If it is true that you have an "H" motor with a V8 style trans then you should be able to get a '39 style toploader trans and swap it right in. 48fordor, do you have a part number for the flat plate that bolts to the block and clutch housing? Is the number different between the '48 and the '41-'47 flat plate? I checked the '48 truck plate that I have and it has no numbers on it, the clutch housing doesn't either. But I suppose the plates don't need to be the same as long as the bolt pattern on the back of the 2 motors is the same. The '48 only I6 car stuff would be expected. Remember in '49 the cars got a completely different transmission, the more modern style with a full removable bell housing. It had the long tail shaft with and open drive shaft. So in '49 everything was different.
I forgot about the flat plate.......it went between the block and flywheel. It acted as a flywheel cover and the starter bolted to it, right? I'm going from memory on all of this, and it's kinda fuzzy. 48 fordor, do you know if the "H" adapter will bolt up to the "G" motor? Thanks again for your input...
I have a 39 toploader trans bolts right up to the flatty .I dont have the flatty anymore but my 47 has a floor shifter now .
sorry to bring this back up i have a 50 flat 6 with 3 ott tranny. basicly wanted to do the same with the v8 tranny if what im reading is correct after 48 they changed to basicly the same tranny as the v8 direct bolt on?
Shelby 69500, I'm going to stick my 2¢ in, since I went through this back in the day, and there may be something else that hasn't been discussed here. At the time the '46 was my daily driver, and had a V8 flattie. I too wanted a floor shift and located a top loader out of a '39 I think. After messing around with putting it in, it became obvious that I would have to get rid of my heater/defroster box 'cause the floor shift comes up in the same place. I liked heat and clear windows in the winter, more than the cool shifter. You didn't mention if you need the heat, or care for that matter, but I thought I would mention it. At the time I bought a side shifter kit from Lucky Auto, Western Auto, or one of the other places, but it was crap and I didn't like it, and so I just kept the tree. It was nicer for my girl at the time, anyway.
I don't think it matters for the answer but is it car or 1/2 ton truck. In '49 the cars got a full bell housing between the engine and transmission -- the front face of the transmission is flat and is open drive. The trucks should still have used the floor shift 3 spd in '50 so I assume you have a car. Since the car will have the full bell, you would need the the flat starter plate and engine side 1/2 bell off the '48-'50 1/2 ton I6. This would then allow you to bolt up the '42-'50 1/2 ton V8 or '48-'50 1/2 ton I6 floor shift open drive 3 spd. Again I assume you were looking for the floor shift trans. If you are just looking to get a '50 car V8 side shift then again it is the same as the I6. Does this make sense?
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