I've got the headers. I've got three Carter W1s. I'm working on getting a cool triple intake. This is all for a 261. Right now, all ignition parts are stock. So let's talk about upgrading the ignition components. Here's the parameters- I want to keep the stock points distributor. No HEI. This leaves coil, plug wires, and plugs. All upgrades should be early '60s period. Otherwise, I'm wide open. So what 12v coil? Chrome is better. What plug wires? What plugs? A stage hotter? Wider gap? Don't be afraid to get technical with the why's and how's. What I'm looking for is more performance along with a peaceful coexistance with the fuel and exhaust upgrades along with a little more excitement in the looks department. Help me set it up. As always, thanks for your help and thanks for this great place!
I found a mechanical advance distributor for a 250 and changed it to fit a 235.No more vacuum advance.
I used a Pertronix inside a NOS dizzy. Looks right but runs a lot better. Also used one of their hotter coils. You will have about max carburetion with those 3 W-1's. Are you doing 3 574s or a progressive with a 684s as the center. Curious how you are doing the linkage for either. I just finished the linkage on a dual with 574s carbs this weekend involving making new throttle shafts. Always looking for better ideas. Tom
It's also completely concealed, so who really needs to know?! True period correct would probably be a Magneto.
Tom, I somehow forgot about Pertronix, thanks for the reminder! I will be using three 574S's. Linkage is unknown at this time. I figured I'd ask about it and try to figure it out when I get closer to mounting it. But I'd love to see what you came up with! Pictures would be great. How about plugs? Did you use stock plugs? How about gap? And thanks a bunch! Kevin
+ 1 for the Pertronix route. As for linkage if I ever get ambitious enough I'll make a few more of these:
Here's another option: Langdon's mini-HEI modified and re-curved just for the Stovebolt. You can't tell by looking at it that it's an HEI, uses an external coil that looks like stock. I've been running one for 5 years, no problems at all. You do need HEI ignition wires and I've got my plugs gapped at .050", they look clean and have a slight brownish color after 5 years of use.
Thanks! I'd not seen that. I see you have to send him a dizzy, which would mean down time. What's the cost? Wow! I need one of those in the absolute worst way! But make mine triple! Pretty please. With sugar on top. I've been looking at those too. Kind of pricey at $200. But Langdon knows his stuff and I'm sure it's well worth it!
did you ever think of takeing the stuffing out of new boot strings and stuffing the empty strings with spark plug wire? just an idea. there is also a few manufactures that still make cloth wires.
That's a cool idea. But cloth wires are probably a little too old for the look I'm shooting for. I'm thinking somewhere around 1961-62.
I never had a problem with my points in almost 10k miles. I thought, still think points are soooo coool. Everything comes down to that little connection. I recently switched over to pertronix and a flamethrower coil. It was a tough choice, but i put my timing light on a 235 that had the pertronix and a flamethower coil.... My timing light lit up the entire garage like a laser show at the science center. The difference over stock was shocking. Im happy with the change. It runs better, and mileage was improved a bit. I think it even sounds a bit different, little more pop.
Kevin: I need to verify my gap setting and plugs for you. In the office and away from the shop today. Had some pics on the I-Phone of the linkage that might be of interest. I am still trying to find the ultimate connection method. Something solid and reliable and still easy to adjust both carbs independently. This is my latest methodology using the W-1 series: The theory is to rely on the countershaft only to take input from the throttle arm and transmit that to the carb on the right. The input arm is temporarily placed in this photo...don't use it as a guide! I have machined new shafts for both carbs. The right carb transfers to the left via the extended throttle shaft. The coupling on the right allows for independent adjustment before mating them to run together. I had to make the piece on the left to provide for left carburetor idle speed adjustment. Need to work on a way to cast this piece for both sides if this survives prototype. Also thinking of casting for the input arms. These in the picture are modified from early Mopar Carters of which I have a couple dozen NOS pieces kicking around. The input arm from the countershaft to the right carburetor is bothering me from a scale perspective. Still trying to figure out the right "look" without losing rigidity. I've gone to the trouble of doing it this way to remove the "play" that is common when all carbs are linked to the countershaft. Been down that road and have yet to see a solution that works well and doesn't look really clunky. Here is a triple set-up that I did a couple of months ago: Rottenchesters. We all know that they don't play well in pairs or triplets due to the power valve tuning issues. Really prefer W-1's or WA-1's with manual fuel metering. Anyway, this uses a version of the linkage sold for new Offy intakes. One solid rod that operates all three when lifted by input to the center carburetor. Easy to build, but individual tuning is hell! Always felt that the "engineering" was pretty weak with these. Therefore, am doing the new method (for me) above. You can see this tri-power set-up running here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqayP7R8gUg Here's the current challenge: figuring out how to link all the manual chokes together. The Rochesters can be done easily with one solid shaft connecting all of them together. Or go automatic as you see above. The W-1's have an accelerator pump in the way...so direct connection will be a big challenge. Someone smarter than me might want to make a suggestion...
Left a picture out for the discussion above. This is the linkage from the countershaft to the right carburetor. This is the portion that needs some work. Just not satisfied with the aesthetic. Tom
Tom, I think it looks cool! Maybe smaller holes? Thanks again guys for all the input! I also got a PM about a dual points dizzy. So, it comes down to Pertronix with hi-po stock looking coil, Langdon's mini HEI that looks stock and is mapped for stovebolts with stock looking coil, GMC Bubba's stock dizzy with Chrysler electronic ignition, or N.O.S. dual points conversion for stock 235/261 dizzy with a hi-po stock looking coil. I have no idea which direction I'm leaning? I'm still curious about what guys are doing for higher performance plug wires and plugs and what gap they're using with which dizzy/coil setup. I didn't even ask for all these awesome carb linkage photos, but it sure is nice you guys have taken the time to post them. Killer work! I can't wait til I get my carbs built so I can start thinking seriously about linkage!
Bubba will also rebuild your dist. and install a PerTronix if you wish. He is a dealer for the PerTronix units.
I appreciate the tip, but I've got a new stock dizzy! I just remembered, i have another stock dizzy that needs to be rebuilt. That would mean no down time should I decide to go with Bubba's deal.
Good thread! Some points ( no pun intended) 1-Plug gap goes with the engine combustion chamber NOT the ignition. Ignition is based on need like combustion chamber shape , cc's and compression ration to include camshaft design ( has a compression effect as well) So if the head is stock and the compression is stock then the plug gap needs to be stock. Opening the plug gap would only raise the kv requirements of the engine. Adding multiple carbs would make the air fuel richer actually requiring LESS kv no more. Increasing compression would make the kv demand increase and then require more kv and increased spark. 2- Distributor advance...... again the curve may be altered to come in at different rpms but you never need more than the factory allowed. You often need less but very seldom need more. ( like on a blown engine) These six cylinder cast iron distributors are the absolute best ever made by delco and often just need a through clean and lube to perform perfectly in any engine !!! May be tweak with a lighter spring but they are performers for the very start !! 3-Points and electronics. Points are very good when new coupled with the correct coil as designed from the factory. However they need some attention from time to time as they do burn and need adjustmnet. The addition of the pertronixs ignitor OR our chrysler /gm hei units conversion will simply decrease the maintance level. As far as running down the road if the engine makes xxxx horse power with points it will make the same with electronics. Electronics simply adds reliablity and some additional current to the spark. Hope this helps the discussion...
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