Opinions and Building a Car

I'm sure this will get shut down,,or turn into a circus. Hopefully there will be some valuable input prior.

We have all seen ,and perhaps replied to the "what do you think" ,,"what should I do" etc posts.

In the past when people were less connected than the net allows, car building was different. Then folks copied the Hot Rod magazines ,,or cars on teh street or at Shows, and perhaps less concerned with acceptance or what have you.

This being said I ask.

Do you think in this day and age based on the above,that the creation of something new is now lost ?

by this I mean back in the day as things grew,folks tried to be a lil different and experimental , and because of that there were many great things that kind make up the history of Hot Rodding.. Old aircraft parts used for Fuel Injection,,Lasalle transmissions re-worked to Ford output.

With everyone ( many people ) so worried about how they will appear ,,does this negatively impact innovation and creativty ?


Hope that all came out right

 

Its all just human nature. Goes back to when the first caveman tied his fur on with a contrasting color pelt.......

 

yes and yes.

probably guilty of it myself.

 

Do you think in this day and age based on the above,that the creation of something new is now lost ?

no

With everyone ( many people ) so worried about how they will appear ,,does this negatively impact innovation and creativty ?

no. a truely creative person does not care what others think.

 

I totally agree. Put your own personal touches, and likes in your car, not what the current fad is. You're going to have to live with it when you drive it. On my current build I changed one thing on my car, because I let a someone sway me. Now I wish I had stuck to my guns and done what I had wanted to in the beginning. It's not a major thing, but just a little something that bugs me and would take a lot of extra work to correct. Just my 2cents. LC

 

Yes, and no...

Take the T5 torque tube conversions and some of the great induction parts that people like Dickster27 make.

Sure, most everything has already been done, but we would have to be pretty high on ourselves to think that we would be able to build an entire car in some way that no one else had done.

The net allows a lot of people to be exposed to many different build styles that they would have been geographically shielded from.

We also get to witness some build techniques that we might have considered, until we see them in person!

At the end of the day, I think it is a wash as far as keeping score between the internet fostering, or stifling creativity.

The type of person that is going to become an amazing fabricator or customizer, is going to follow their own road anyway.

It's just harder to be original nowadays...but it does happen!

Just my humble opinion...

 

the strong people will always lead the weaker minded.

the weaker minds will always look to the strong for acceptance.

the creative and talented will make their own way.

 

I've thought about this all many times. I think being a fan of traditional hot rodding gives you a limited pool of what you can use. I think that's why so many people gravitate towards '1964' as their build year because they have a hell of a lot more options on their period correct build than a guy going for a 1940's period correct.

 

“The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.” - Albert Einstein

 

I think there is an impact on creativity but i think it comes more from people copying things they like rather then the fear of not being accepted. At least I hope thats where it comes from.

 

Yes, this being a traditional site certain rules apply, that and the fear of being flamed. To keep pushing the envelope we the hot rodders have to use newer engines, trans and tecknologies to keep moving forward.

I think people are still as they were this site just doesn't see as much of the stuff because its not traditional. A chevy ls1 or new hemi isn't accepted here as it isn't traditional but i have seen bangers with late fours in them and they pass the test...hummm?

 

My goal is to build something completely different than anyone else,,,I try to imagine I was back in whatever period I'm building the car from,,I visualize what they would had to work with and try to do something that hopefully hasn't been done already (tougher than you might think)..do i take some of my inspiration from kustoms of the past? hell yeah, you bet. Hugely influential on my build have been anything built by Bob Metz, the Buick Y-job, the LeSabre concept car, and numerous others...Posting progress pictures on the HAMB and hearing input from others has been a huge help as well,,,,I've gotten lots of ideas I may not have considered otherwise,,some worked, some didn't,,but I've always been open to other peoples opinions....solicited or not,,,In the end, I realize I ultimately need to please myself, but anyone that says it isn't a good feeling when others like what you are doing isn't being completely honest in my opinion..

 

I would think ( or like to think ) tht there are still alot of older parts that could be reworked and reapplied ,,to make them better. Though with so much new technology already existing the effort to do this gets left behind.

 

Creativity is not lost on someone who builds to their own vison; only those who feel "acceptance" is more important.

 

There is still alot of originality out there.

Troy Ladd: Well executed, extreme attention to detail. Nothing there that does not need to be there.


Dan Collins: Off the chart 60's style. Still tasteful and drivable.


Kirk Jones and Alex Gambino: uh, fuck yes.


Littleman: Innovations galore.


Brian Bass: the details in his '29 A are crazy.


Those are just a few examples. There are still guys building their own visions of what they consider hot rods or customs.

 

I'm one to talk , but the internet's not a required tool to build a hot rod - either for research or to show others what you're doing. I say that in the sense that showing everything you're doing on the internet (while you're doing it) isn't necessary.

It's true that the "immediacy" of things these days (the fact that you put something on the internet and the whole world can realistically see it) means that it takes a shorter time for the community to see and replicate or improve on your design. If they're faster than you, theoretically they could have your idea on the road sooner than you!

 

SanDiegoJoe's list is an excellent example of originality and creativity.

I would add Kirk's Legion Special to it. (I'm too lazy to go find a photo!)

 

I think the main advantage of the internet is that when you have an idea, but you're maybe not sure how to do it, you can use places like here as a brains trust to help figure your idea out. And to find the parts you will need to do it!

 

IMO, the net effect is positive.

The information age has made it easier for followers to follow, but also easier for the innovators to innovate. Look at the thread about the most beautiful factory stock cars. I was exposed to vehicles I had never before seen. When I work on something, my reservoir of sources for creative ideas is greater as a result of that information.

Sure, instead of 1000 people seeing an idea at a car show, now a million people see it online so even if the percentage of people who follow trends is the same, the number is much larger. But the ability of those who set the trends, who innovate, who create, is so enhanced by the technology we have, the auto-enthusiast community as a whole benefits.

 

Your point is WELL TAKEN. In the old days, it was very common to hear a buddy say, 'yeah, I'm pullin' that ol' six out and droppin' in a 42(whatever).'

With all the cars made in the past ten (or twenty) years, who changes their engine with something different? I don't know anyone. They usually overhaul what they got and stick it back in.

By contrast, I used my '90 Mustang as a donor car for my '55 Customline. Maybe this isn't so rare, but most guys like to stick to the less complicated, non-computer/non electronic setups, so they leave new cars alone.

We have fabulous fabricators today, but far fewer back yard mechanics. Sad... all the engine scheduled maintenance is reduced to plugs and filters. No lash adjustments, dwell settings, or timing. Folks don't know what a heat riser valve is, and can't figure why their engine is overheating. - Dave

 

The way I see it, you will never please everyone every time. Even with building a car, it should please the driver of the car, not the onlookers. If they like it, great! if they don't, it's not theirs, so who cares.

 

I think the people who "have it" will always have it. I think we all get inspiration from other's work and its just the way of how you use it. Certian things will copied, and a lot of shit has already been done but its how you put it all together that makes it work and like I said some people have it.

I myself think the way we have access to so many things now has helped, I have learned many things and now it up to me to use it all in the right way. I think thats were some people go wrong. You still have to have some creativity in what you do, its why the Brian Bass's, Littleman's, Dan Collins', Alex Gambino's etc of the world are doing what they're doing and being successful at it, they got it.

 

I was just reading an old story the other day. Back in the 60s LilJohn and his partner left Wisconsin for California with their dragster. They asked a lot of questions to the West Coast guys that were successfull. The other racers could see these young Midwestern guys were honest, talented and determined so they answered their well educated questions. So, was Buttera copying or getting inspiration? Surely Lil didn't NEED opinions from others? Of course he did. We all need input, its called learning.

 

Thanks for mentioning a couple of my projects.

I think it's an interesting question. Creativity is a very relative thing. I have always made my living via creativity. I don't know how to do anything else, but sometimes that's a curse and I can't leave well-enough alone. I literally customize pretty much everything that passes through my hands - I can't help it.

As for MCD and the Legion Special. Both of those projects are collaborations between artists. With both projects we talked about what people would think and how this or that may blow their minds, but didn't worry about acceptance. In both cases there was an unspoken balance trying to be maintained between too far and not far enough. Good art has to at least be based on something people understand, but then stretched, but within a still recognizable limit. The viewer may not fully "get" the end result, but the core has some relevance and attraction.

Alex, Matt and I have collaboratively walked that tightrope, and in each case the two parties involved acted like each end of the long pole the performer carries for balance. Both of those cars are heavily based on ideas gleaned from the past, with just enough "new" to be intriguing, without losing the core character...I hope.

The bad end of the spectrum is people who think they are creative (rat rodders). I have reviewed countless artist portfolios in my career and 90% of them are crap. Yes, crap. They were assembled by people who decided that they were going to be designers or artists. It's kind of like deciding that you're going to be tall. Yeah, you can get platform shoes and stand up straight, but you are what you are. Artists are born artists, and sometimes it's as much a curse as it is a gift. Just doing something different does not mean it's creative and definitely does not mean it's good.

 

I will say that I wish I had more time to dedicate to the visions in my head.

I have the proverbial angel/ devil hot rodders standing on my shoulders: the devil pushing me to just get the damn thing done, the angel either pleading with me to take my time and do it properly or covering his face with his hand and shaking his head.

- Joe

 

Thus far there hasn't been anything except valuable input!

I think most people have some sort of concern for what at least some other people think of them. I think it's pretty normal, and I don't think it necessarily militates against creativity. It's more important what you want other people to think of you: whether it's something fundamentally good, whether what they think is the truth.

Indeed, many of us want to appear creative and innovative to our peers. In that we're saying creativity and innovation are good things. We can have lots of reasons for saying so, and lots of provisos with respect to what we mean by creativity and innovation. And then, if we're honest, we wouldn't want to be thought creative and innovative unless we really were creative and innovative.

So, to answer your question, I don't think exposure to a larger peer group need have a negative influence on creativity.

However, I do believe that the pervasive linear conception of technological history does tend to hamper creativity. That describes technological development in terms of a straight line in which one practice is replaced by another according to a necessary movement towards a perfected type. In this there is only the dichotomy: forwards/backwards, which is considered coincidental with both better/worse and later/earlier. The resulting fallacy is that specific technological change is a pure function of history.

This conflation of innovation and "progress" is not conducive to creative thinking. For instance, the popular consensus is that the carburettor "gave way to" EFI and that, firstly, EFI is intrinsically superior to carbs and, secondly, that the change came about primarily because it was time for it. This does not allow the possibility of technological wrong turns; and thus the constant-vacuum carburettor remains a grossly underdeveloped concept. A lot more can be done with a 2" SU than has been done hitherto, but not if nobody believes it's possible - or in the possibility of the concomitant cultural implications.

On the HAMB we're already thinking in terms of historical situations as points of departure, and to my mind that's a massive advantage in creativity right there. Trying to come up with a better drum brake opens up huge possibilities, because by the mere fact of wanting to try it you are forcing yourself to disregard the notion that the only way to improve a drum brake is to turn it into a disc brake. You're forced to think beyond historical linearity.

The same applies to aesthetics. Working in a traditional idiom you have to think in terms of the sort of formal articulation that is consistent with, say, '20s methods of manufacture and construction; and in my experience that changes the way you draw. Common concept-sketch techniques really lend themselves best to plastics and cellphone-like construction: the faster you draw the more you tend to draw those sorts of shapes. Going beyond that, by drawing what you think of instead of thinking of what you draw, opens up endless possibilities.

 

I've never understood the threads that start,"I've wanted a (insert car here) for thirty years and finally got one. How should I build it?" The answer is always build it the way you see it in your head, if you don't have a vision of the car why the hell did you buy it? The only person who has to like what I build is me. It is still possible to be creative and do something different. I don't think we can ever get to the point where everything has been done and we're just repeating ourselves.

 

Wish I had the time to respond at length on this topic but I'm too busy building my '55 Ford more door.......just got done putting a fabricated cowl vent instead of a bunch of louvers in the trunk lid to let the heat out from the radiator.....the blown hemi in the front will proably produce a lot of heat........

 

Well, I think if you hang out on the HAMB enough, it may SEEM like nothing new and creative is being done, but that's mainly because here it's kinda frowned upon. After all, most guys here think that "traditional" means doing things the way they've always been done. There's nothing really wrong with that, it's pretty much how I'm building mine, but it sure doesn't promote advances and innovation, and I personally think being different/innovative is the real rod/custom tradition.
There are lots of new and creative things being done, you're probably just looking in the wrong places.
This thread will probably be closed soon.

 

Just when I think I have seen it all done with brass, someone comes up with another brass piece. Because of the info on the hamb (I also spend time on a custom bike blog and a racing blog) I am motivated to come up with my own original ideas. I try different things just to see how people react, find that people will say little if they like something but say a LOT if they hate something. I had a orange El Camino 25 yrs ago, color matched the rally wheels and from the comments I got you would have thought I harmed the Pope!!!! But when the wheels were the factory argent no one said anything at all! I have a lot of buddies with niiiice street rods that say they want a car like mine. It's a compliment.............I think? peace