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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Dead Horse Hillclimb in 1911 and the Atlana Hillclimb in 1910.
     

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  2. twin6
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 2,237

    twin6
    Member
    from Vermont

    A couple Knox race car photos. Does anyone recognize the lady with the fancy lid? If not, I suspect we may hear from T-Head who knows all about her.
     

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  3. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Looking at his hairline, I'd guess it's Raymond Mays.
     
  4. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Race fans, their tents and automobiles at the French GP on the Dieppe circuit June 25-26 1912. I wonder if the barrel behind the two tents in the first photo is for brandy? The photos again are by famous photographer Lartique.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  5. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    Wow, anyone have an idea what that killer ride is in the fourth picture?
     
  6. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    My first thought when I looked at it was a 1904-06 40 HP? Mercedes? From the dash forward it has that look and it is also chain drive. The unusual thing about it is the wheelbase is so long for a roadster or for any body for that matter.

    Maybe some of our friends on the other side of the ocean will know more about?
     
  7. speedyguy
    Joined: Mar 30, 2010
    Posts: 7

    speedyguy
    Member
    from London UK

  8. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia


    Fantastic photos T-Head. It really proves how superior the French roads were compared to those from the U.S.
    Wish i was there.

    nobo,

    I think that is a Mercedes 37/65hp or a 37/70hp, possibly a 1906 to 1910 model. These were the first of the 6cyl cars.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  9. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    Thanks for the ID.
     
  10. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks for the articles.

    Any idea why there was a 2nd passenger in the ALCO and where was that person sitting?:eek:

    I think that person didn't know what happened in France in 1903.
     
  11. 36 Airstream
    Joined: Apr 19, 2010
    Posts: 34

    36 Airstream
    Member

    Couldn't say Jim, I'm guessing US.
     
  12. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Press photo from 1962 of Old 16, showing good detail of the cowl and engine with its rear mounted timing gears. This was a feature of the early Mercedes that Ricker, Locomobile's engineer may have copied.
     

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  13. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    1908 SPO (Ste. Fse. Depetit Outillage) photographed years ago when it was part of James Melton's collection. It was reputed to have raced in the NYC area back in the period. It is a very nicly constructed racer about the same size as a T-Head Mercer.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2010
  14. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Early racing was no different from today, sponsors and promotion were an additional way to add income. Here is Bob Burman promoting Polarize Motor Oil and their Premier Gasoline.

    Interestingly the Benz is lettered #2 on its cowl.
     

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    96HP likes this.
  15. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    From what i have been able to find about the photo, Burman raced in Canada over a period of four weeks starting on the 18th & 19th July 1913 at the Minoru track in a number of 1 mile record runs consistantly running times under a minute and returned the following week at the same place. The Minoru venue in the above photo was in fact a horse racing track located at what is now Richmond, BC.
     
  16. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

     

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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2010
  17. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Photos from the 240 mile race at Briarcliff, NY on the 27th April 1908.

    Ist photo: Lewis Strang finished first without giving up the lead driving a Isotta.
    2nd photo: Paul Sartori on a Bianchi, finished in 7th.
    3rd photo: William Watson on a Simplex finished in 18th place.
    4th photo: Harry Michener in a Lozier finished 16th.
     

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  18. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

     

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  19. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

     
  20. Jim Scammell
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 36

    Jim Scammell
    Member

    Vitesse, here's another shot of that driver aboard the SX4 special. Does this confirm it to be Raymond Mays?
     

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  21. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member


    Mays on the Left (as you look at it)



    [​IMG]


    A younger Mays



    [​IMG]





    .





    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2010
  22. twin6
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 2,237

    twin6
    Member
    from Vermont

    Another shot of James Melton's 1908 S.P.O., taken at Sebring in 1958 (see post 2941 for his Renault at same event). Original owner was Barend van Gerbig in CT, not far from Melton's museum in Norwalk.
     

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  23. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,828

    fur biscuit
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Raymond Mays's cars are very well documented. Will pull his books when i get home and see if he ran an essex.

    Off the top of my head, I recall his early cars as being:

    Vauxhaul "Villiers" (evolution car, which he developes all the way up through the ERA's)
    Bugatti Brescia's (Cordon Rouge and Cordon Bleu)
    AC
    then the ERA/ Riley cars.
     
  24. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Same car - Captain Glentworth's 3 litre Essex - but different drivers.

    Neither driver is Raymond Mays - although from model A keith's first picture I'm sure you can see why I suggested him!

    Pretty sure the first one is JS Couldrey. The second is taken in the paddock at Brooklands - those wooden stalls are very distinctive, as is the background - and I'm 95% sure the driver is Douglas Hawkes.
     
  25. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Medinger's Sunbeam that finished 5th in the 1912 French GP in the first photo. The second of two photos by Lartique shows Wyse in his Arrol-Johnson.
     

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  26. twin6
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 2,237

    twin6
    Member
    from Vermont

    Another Pike's Peak contestant, in 1926, the Broadmoor Special. Broadmoor was a big resort hotel in Colorado Springs, and still exists, so very likely this car was sponsored or backed by the hotel. Back on post 3045, you'll see the Cliff House Special, presumably backed by the Cliff House, a hotel in Manitou Springs. I think the Broadmoor Special is the car at far right in the first photo on post 3045, but I cannot identify its make. Can anyone help? This is a massive machine, compared to Noel Bullock's model T 4 years earlier. (Update - I can only speculate the spelling on the bonnet, "Brodmoor" was made because of limited space!)
     

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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2010
  27. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Two more photos by Lartique showing the beautiful countryside the 1912 French GP was run thru. The first, Dario Resta in his Sunbeam and the second photo is special because that is the famous driver Nazarro by the fence urging Wagner to accelerate his big Fiat.
     

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  28. Jim Scammell
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 36

    Jim Scammell
    Member

    Twin6, a search on Google found a the following reference;

    PPIHC Gallery Page
    Many of the images that you see on the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb ... Harry McMillen in his Pierce Arrow Broadmoor Special "Yellow Devil" in 1926. ...
    www.ppihc.com/gallery.aspx?categoryid=5854&photomode... - Cached


    Unfortunately the Pike's Peak International Hill Climb 'gallery' page is no longer accessible.

    We should take them at their word for the time being, so its 'Harry McMillen in his Pierce Arrow Broadmoor Special "Yellow Devil" in 1926'. They are probably correct. Even though the car is RHD it does look like a quality US machine. And of course before you Americans jumped ship, you did install those steering wheels on the correct side for quite a while as evidenced by that photo.
    Cheers
    Jim
     
  29. Jim Scammell
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 36

    Jim Scammell
    Member

    Thanks for the info on the SX4, the special owner and the probable drivers.

    Were there any additional SX4s raced at Brooklands?
    We have here in Australia at least a couple of remnant SX4 racing cylinder heads from the early 1920s. In the late 1960s these heads were referred to here locally by the old enthusiasts as 'Brooklands heads'. No references have been found as to their source. In the early 1920s, Norman 'Wizard' Smith used one of these cylinder heads on his city-to-city SX4 record breaker. It was timed at over 100mph.

    We think that it is likely that the heads were designed and built in Australia, probably by the engineering firm of Harkness & Hillier, based in Sydney. But it would be interesting if they had been sourced from the UK.

    These cylinder heads made use of four inlet ports across the top deck of the head, incorporated twin spark plugs per cylinder and retained the use of the standard valve train of overhead inlet and side exhaust. See the photo of the head using a log manifold and in this shot two later model S.U. carbs.
    Cheers
    Jim
     

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  30. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 11,345

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    As a matter of principle, I don't think anyone feels it is right to mess with other photographers images. But I was so awed by this Lartigue photo... I did a gentle crop and photoshop to see if I could put a little snap back in it. I would have burned in the right side a tad, but I've got no idea how to do that. Now I wish I could print it 4ft by 6ft and frame it! Thank the stars for all the idle rich guys at the turn of the century with plenty of film and time on their hands! Gary
     

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