Yes, if Ford A rods are used, you can have them bored to accept inserts-- in fact you can buy new forged inserted rods with inserts from Antique Engine Rebuilding, in Skokie Il. The problem with the mains is more than that all three are different size. The stock main bearings for the front and rear main are thick replaceable babbit shells, far thicker than any modern insert. They, and the center main, a bronze shell with babbit cast into it, were meant to be line reamed after installation. this was probably due to the fact that the main bores in the block were not put in with the precision required to ensure that all are dead in line. To use modern inserts, the block would have to be line bored on the front and rear main, using the center main as reference, and steel sleeves made to bring the bores down to the OD of the inserts. The bronze center shells which also take endthrust, could be bored to insert diameter. I made my own (thick wall) inserts, but what most do is to have the block babbited like a Ford T,A or B, and then have the babbit line bored. No cheap easy way out of this. Herb
I have heard of people using bronze to make the sleeves for the mains. Or steel would be fine. On my unmentionable make of banger I used money. For about $2500 you can have a billet crank ground to fit your block after it is line bored the fit inserts of your choice. At the same time you can get the rod jurnols ground to work with rods of proper lenth and insert bearings. This crank would be drilled for oil and counter weighted. It might even have a flywheel flange to fit a modern flywheel and a snout to fot a modern dampner. At least mine did. It's pricey up front, but solves a lot of issues in one effort.
I wish I could throw money at the motor but that probably won't happen till I am through college, school is expensive. One day all my projects will get funding, for now they are very carefully planned as to maximize productivity once i aquire the funding. Although this weekend I am adding another project to the roster, a model T truck that i am being given in rough shape, but runs, so i will have to start another thread on hoppin up the t motors since I can only seem to find info on the A motors.
Rich, I was wondering if that would be a possible solution- just need to find three different sized bearings for the crank and use bronze/steel sleeves to make up the difference (might even be able to use the original center shell). In Gerber's book, he goes through the modifications to his 490- seems like everything inside the block wound up being T, including the crankshaft. I'll reread my notes and post them later. Thanks as always for the input, Bill
I believe that may be what the unnamed brand of banger did. Use the original bronze backed bearings as spacers. Being an unmentionable brand, also made by brothers, the bearings were all the same size and there were more of them. You could email the machinist [email protected] and get the dope. I do note that they have now stepped up for a new Moldex crank. Mine is from Crower.
Haha, like reading about myself few years ago. I also waited to pass the university to get my fingers in grease. Then we got married, bought a house, got two kids and some sort of part time jobs. Cars and bikes are still waiting for extra cash and extra time in carrage and sheds. And also got a T-Ford project few years ago (-26 Touring).
I have been there and still am, even though Im out of school. Except now instead of having no money because Im living off student loans, I have no money because Im paying them back. Oh well, I pick up pieces here and there, and continue to carefully plan things. One nice thing, is that I now have an oldie as a daily driver, so I get to wrench regularly and its permissible, as I need it for work. -Dave
You guys don't believe me. I think you were right. If we want to have a Dodge bros. thread lets start one. If we want to have a non-Ford banger thread, start one of them. You were correct, this is a Chevy 4 thread and I don't want to hijack it again.
A thread about the brothers fine four would be of much interest to me Rich, should you choose to start one--don't know that I could contribute much, but I bet that I could learn a lot!!! Herb
I would LOVE to see a Fast 4 thread- gorgeous engine! And yes Doug, secretly I want two more main bearings from the factory (don't we all)
yeah, but our luck those 2 more would be 2 additional sizes I would be interested in a Fast Four thread as well, eventually I would love to build one to power a dodge bros project. erm i mean "Unmetionable Bros Project" Glad to see we all get along so well. I was thinkin, on the subject of roller lifters, I think I remember a buddy of mine talkin about a ball-in-socket type roller lifter for something, I realize that that would cause the same wear issuses as the the original lifters if I correctly understood Herb on that one, but is there any way to modify the cam to be resiliant to just such a lifter? Perhaps if the ball itself was made from a different material than steel? I will have to try and figure out what he was talkin about, I may be way off, but the thought had occured to me
Going back on my decision to limit myself to products by the Bros. Louis and Gaston I wish to point out my motor is not a "Fast Four" The standard four is better for an OHV conversion due to distributer placement. And this mourning I took my new Crower billet crank to the crank grinder to finish a few things that need finishing. I knew I would have the coolest crank in the place. Armondo set it down next to a Valasco billet crank for a Buick four. 5 inch stroke and about 1/2 again as long as my crank. Had the rods from Valasco also. counter weights, drilled for oil. Also uses 2 inch Chevy rod bearings. To cool.
Rich-- Do we need to get together and buy you a pocket digital camera? Don't torture us by telling us things like big Ubick (no car brand names here!) crank and Valasco rods, and then leave what they looked like to our feeble imaginations! Herb
I have a camara. I just didn't take it with me to the crank grinder. I'll try to remember to take it when I go back and hope that big old thing is still there.PS. It's not really old. In fact it's new. But it is big.
BTTT- I did some checking of my notes and Gerber used a Wills St. Claire crank in his 490 block, but I'm pretty sure that he used a T crank before the Wills St. Claire (will have ro re-read the book this summer and take more exhaustive notes on his modifications).
Im still here observing all the great info. I have a 28 block that was frozen and badly split. I would be willing to disect it for deck, wall thickness tests or test drilling for oiling ideas. Id like to break out my parts and a camera on my next set of days off too. There seems to be lots of interest here lets keep it rolling.
Problem with modern cranks is that they have 5 mains. The long length of the center main on the old fours causes problems with trying to adapt modern OHV heads to the old blocks--I am suprised that the Y block head was close enough to fit on the PB Plymouth. A couple years ago, I sectioned a 224CID block to check thickness in various areas. This was a stock bore, and allowing for core shift it looks like they were aiming at 1/4" deck and cylinder walls, and 3/16" outer jacket. While this isn't a piece from a 171" block, both engines were designed and built by the Saganaw Engine works (who also did the 1917 Chevy V8), and are very similar. I read that some racers removed up to .400" from the top of the small blocks to get more compression. This would leave the top of the block open as some modern engines are. There is a cast bridge between the cylinder and the head bolt boss (visible) which would help stabilize the top of the bore. Herb
I have never worked with a Chevy 4 cylinder but I would doubt it. All the early fours I have seen, most are three main bearing engines with long journls. Dodge Bros. started out that way and then added two narrow mains. All the new cranks I have seen are five main woth relitively narrow journls. That and the equal bore spacing on the newer engines compaired to the grouping of two and two on early engines makes it very hard to think a modern crank will fit without radical (Remove the entire main web ) sugery. PS "FIT" may not discribe the Y block head on the Plymouth PA/PB block. It worked but you had to be optomistic about combustion chamber/bore alingment.
Hey Herb, I use http://www.photobucket.com and upload them and choose the desired upload size. Cheers Jimmy
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