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Transmission question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by broke boy, Feb 16, 2010.

  1. broke boy
    Joined: Feb 1, 2010
    Posts: 17

    broke boy
    Member

    hey ya,
    so my transmission is shot and i dont want to for out the money for a rebuild kit for it. not now at least. so what i want to do is put a diferent trany in, maybe 3 or 4 on the floor. my question is: What transmission will be a bolt on in place of Hydra-Matic transmission that's in it now?
    i know I'm going to have to do fabrication, just want one that bolts up to the motor.
    any help, suggestions or criticism is welcome.
     
  2. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 9,606

    Rickybop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You usually can't just bolt up a standard-shift trans to an engine that originally had an automatic for one reason. An engine that uses a standard-shift trans has a bored hole in the back end of the crankshaft that a bushing is pressed into. The front tip of the input-shaft of a standard trans is inserted into the bushing. I don't think that most engines mated to an automatic have this bored hole. You would have to disassemble the engine, remove the crankshaft, and take it to a machine-shop to have the pilot-bushing hole bored.
     
  3. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 9,606

    Rickybop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    P.S. - Then of course, clutch linkage and adapting a trans, modified trans-crossmember, modified drive-shaft...does your car have a torque-tube?...never dealt with Cads. If it does, that can multiply problems. I don't wanna rain on your parade. I know the Hydramatics are expensive to rebuild. Maybe somebody else will have options.
     
  4. broke boy
    Joined: Feb 1, 2010
    Posts: 17

    broke boy
    Member

    so that would cause me to have to buy a rebuild kit for the motor since i have it apart... and for that one its really requires a wad of $. lol
    damn i thought it was going to be a bit easier... i thought of a different motor with a 3 or 4 speed but i have a strong one in there now with matching #'s to the car.
     

  5. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    The crank on your Caddy may have the bore needed, but that is the least of your problems in adapting a stick shift. I don't know what it costs to overhaul your Hydramatic, but there is no cheap alternative. You can retrofit an later GM Turbo-Hydramatic, like a TH400, TH 350, 700R4 etc., by using an adapter available from at least a couple of sources. The adapter kits will cost $800 to $1000, plus the trans, driveshaft modification and miscellaneous expenses. I would think, doing the work yourself, you MIGHT get by for $1500 on the low side.....

    Best wishes
    Ray
     
  6. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Just read your latest post ............changing the engine and trans would probably cost as much as the tranny job or adapted later automatic. The thing about a stick conversion is the provision for a clutch pedal/linkage or hydraulic clutch.......you can get adapters for a stick GM trans in the same manner as the automatic. Cads and Olds of the early 50'd did come with sticks, but they are not common these days and are worth a few bucks when you do find them. Stiil doesn't solve the clutch pedal issue. Your most cost effective cure is rebuild the stocker or adapt a late model trans.

    Ray
     
  7. B Lawrence
    Joined: Nov 18, 2009
    Posts: 232

    B Lawrence
    Member
    from Ham.

    Go to Weld Cap. They make a bellhousing and flywheel that you can bolt a chev clutch and muncie or borg. The last caddie I did was a 56 and it had a factory 3 speed on it. So I"m not sure with the auto trans if the pilot is drilled. (I think it is, had a few 55-57 caddie motors,I"m stumped on that one!) I use a "HOWE" hydraulic release brg. Buy a stock car pedal and master.It works for me. Good luck on what ever way you go ........
     
  8. OldSub
    Joined: Aug 27, 2003
    Posts: 1,064

    OldSub
    Member Emeritus

    So what makes you sure the original trans is shot? It might be cheapest to fix it rather than rebuild it. Maybe not, but not knowing what is wrong with it its not hard to speculate that its nothing serious.
     
  9. B Lawrence
    Joined: Nov 18, 2009
    Posts: 232

    B Lawrence
    Member
    from Ham.

    I agree with HNSTRAY .Easiest and most cost effective is rebuild the hydra. In and out no mods........
     
  10. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    First of all, if this is a dual range hydro, the crankshaft already has the hole AND bushing, as the hydros used them also. Second, any adapter to use a later model auto trans is going to be expensive. And, by the time you buy a bellhousing, flywheel, clutch assembly, fabricate clutch linkage, find and buy a manual trans, and sort out the shifter, you're going to be in pretty deep moneywise. There's a Cad hydro on that auction site we all know and love (nothing I'm involved with) for a $50.00 start bid. No one has opened and probably wont either. Something to think about. You sure yours just does'nt need some adjustment of the bands? Personally, I'd keep the hydro if at all possible. But, anything's possible; I know a guy who's brother has a 57 J-2 Olds with a SIX speed in it. He had to fab everything also, so it is possible. Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  11. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    do you mean "Wil-Cap"? they are the adapter company, they also handle Sharp Speed Equipment.

    Cheatercarl
     
  12. broke boy
    Joined: Feb 1, 2010
    Posts: 17

    broke boy
    Member

    yeah i guess i better stick with the original since it has the matching #s to the car and someday find a different project to mess with, everyone has been telling me that its best to leave this beast the way it came of the assembly line. the transmission is just shifting hard and goes into 3rd gear past the 2nd, wont down shift once its up there... one tranny guy quoted me with parts 2500 to stat of with... i rather tear the damn thing apart myself and learn a thing or two rebuilding it... lol then it probably wont even shift. the rebuild kit is pricey for the son of a B. ill see if i can find a replacement till i fix the original. thanks guys
     
  13. r8odecay
    Joined: Nov 8, 2006
    Posts: 787

    r8odecay
    Member


    I would LOVE to see a '56 with a factory 3 speed in it!
    got any pictures?
     
  14. r8odecay
    Joined: Nov 8, 2006
    Posts: 787

    r8odecay
    Member


    STOP RIGHT THERE. it has nothing to do with the #s matching...everything to do with a fully serviceable bulletproof and tank proven trans, that actually requires periodic maintenance and adjustment.

    2-3 shift is generally notorious on these. You probably need to adjust both bands.

    tell me what makes the most sense:

    all shifts too high or too low
    one shift too high or too low
    shifts erratic
    hunting
    misses one shift only
    Has second and fourth only
    2-3 shift rough
    no 4-3 downshift
    slips after 4-3 downshift
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  15. 52chevydeluxePDX
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 336

    52chevydeluxePDX
    Member

    Yea it just sounds like its something with the bands. If the car is moving and shifting then you might be ok. Might not even need to rebuild it.
     
  16. B Lawrence
    Joined: Nov 18, 2009
    Posts: 232

    B Lawrence
    Member
    from Ham.

    The car was a 51 caddie funeral hearse. The motor had been installed when everand the car had a 3 speed std. in it from new,I guess ! Thats how I got it anyways...Brian.
     
  17. broke boy
    Joined: Feb 1, 2010
    Posts: 17

    broke boy
    Member

    well i n regards to the matching #'s, I think it would be nice to keep all the original parts that came with it.
    on the shifting part...
    first gear shifts too low and skips to third... no down shifting form then on.
    i would have throw it in to low gear to get it to down shift. havent really been driving the beast due to its performance
     
  18. r8odecay
    Joined: Nov 8, 2006
    Posts: 787

    r8odecay
    Member


    matching #s...I understand, I guess what I was trying to say didn't translate well in text.

    OK, so my '51 Manual shows virtually ALL the shifting problems (not slipping, right?) diagnose in this order:

    Adjust Throttle Linkage
    Adjust Manual Linkage
    Clean Valve Assembly
    Clean Governor


    Do you happen to have an aftermarket carb on it? Have you adjusted the linkages?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  19. r8odecay
    Joined: Nov 8, 2006
    Posts: 787

    r8odecay
    Member

    OK couple more...

    the 2-3 regulator plug and 1-2 governor plug valves play an important part in controlling the 3-2 and 2-1 forced downshift. ~OR~
    the rear servo may be sticking.

    Have you drained and filled fresh fluid? The Torus holds several quarts too. How did the old fluid look/smell?
     
  20. broke boy
    Joined: Feb 1, 2010
    Posts: 17

    broke boy
    Member

    the first thing i did when i got the car rolling was drain the fluids, the tranny fluid was like yogurt, didnt smell like anything besides a faint smell of transmission fluid. the car sat for over 10 years in the field. so i filled her up ran it for about 15 minutes drained it and filled er up again. she is leaking from every crevice when left sitting for a day or two...
    i dont know much about carbs so i had a shop rebuild my original carb and adjust it. as soon as i get a break here from school i will mess with the linkages to see if that makes any difference, i just picked up a 1950 original shop manual for it, so that should help out a bit.
     
  21. broke boy
    Joined: Feb 1, 2010
    Posts: 17

    broke boy
    Member

    damn! so i tried to get a tranny shop to do my tranny, because i dont know jack about trannys. and almost everyone said that they wont touch the damn thing for less than 2500 to start with. crazy!
     
  22. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    I still say keep the hydro. There are rebuild kits now, on that auction site we all know and love, for the old hydramatics. Buy a kit, find an old Motors Manual, and rebuild it yourself. The rebuild instructions in Motors are pretty clear. The "tools" needed would be the biggest concern, but you can probably improvise. And, $2500.00 is way too much, keep looking; maybe even try Hemmings for rebuilders who still do these transmissions. Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  23. I'd put the call out to see if there's any HAMB'r in your local area who has gone thru a hydro.

    Having someone who's done it before when you do the first one of something probably ain't a bad idea.

    Also, take TONS of pics as things come apart; mark where pieces went.

    For instance, small check balls in mopar torqueflite valve bodies look the same, but are slightly different sizes - and will cause gremlins when you leave your valve body torn apart for three months before putting it together. DAMHIK!

    The other thing is sanitation. You need everything clean. You know how clean you want engine parts before you assemble them? Well, transmissions like dirt even LESS than engines.

    You may do well to pressure wash the outside before disassembly, take it apart, and then take case to a place with a jet washer.

    EDIT: I'd recommend doing all possible services (linkage and band adjustments, fluid/filter change, etc) before removing trans. Like the previous poster said, the problem might be there. Who knows, you might get lucky!

    -Bill
     

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