Flathead V-8's. What do I need to know?

The first Chevrolet V8 was....1917. Research it.

 

There you go, a 1917 Chevrolet V-8.

 

Don't want to give up my flathead. It a great motor

 

This is accurate information. I build these engines all the time and I'd say 10-15% of them are damaged beyond resonable repair. 20-50% maybe need some form of repair and the balance can be run with doing the work of a standard rebuild (boring, seats and so on).

The "running hot" you hear about all the time is usually do to three things.....improper timing, water pumps are bad/impeller loose and not cleaning the block well enough prior to rebuilding it. If properly rebuilt you won't have any heating issues.

And as for milage.....that depends on how "hot" your engine is, what car it's in, your driving style and so on. I have several customers with 50's Ford and flatheads in them that get over 20 mpg on the highway.

 

Overdrive seems to be the ticket with flatheads. I have one behind my '47. Flatheads are super reliable and while they may not be fast by todays standards they will provide many trouble free miles. With overdrive you can go anywhere.

 

I love the drama each time the flathead vs sbc debate comes up. I had one 305 sbc and it was a pig that couldn't get out of its own way. You can't compare to the 350 sbc cause thats not the one that 'replaced' the flathead.

The flathead stopped production in 1953 US. The sbc came along 2 years later. Different generation, 2 decades of improvements later - it should have beaten the flatty.

Might as well compare the 305 sbc to the 4.6 in my '07 Shelby. No? Same difference from where I sit.

I've run a flathead V8 in a daily driver 48 F1 for the past 10 years, driven it cross country and the little engine is totally reliable. Period.

I run flatheads for the same reason I build and hunt with muzzleloading rifles, am a bow hunter and mess around with old trucks and cars. Most of my life is regular. Hobbies are the spice of life.

 

This isn't a flathead vs. sbc thread. It's just about learning about flatheads, which I am very interested in.

I don't know why you're typing about a 305 Chevy. The 350 came out before the 305. ???. First it was a 265, then the 283, then the 327, then the 302, then the 350 and 307, then the 305 came out...

It sounds like most people that run flatheads run them because they're traditional and all of that it entails. Very cool.

 

Diapers had their time and place in everyone's life, too, but most of us grew out of them eventually and moved on to better things!

I'm just being a wiseass. If I were to build a flathead these days, I'd really try to find one that hadn't been lying outside in an iron pile since Nixon was in the White House. In my opinion, more money spent at the onset for a good core will pay off handsomely down the road, when you don't end up having to abandon a block you've already sunk some $$$ into when you get the bad news. Paying $1000-$1500 for a rotted out, but still running, '50 Ford (like a friend of mine just did) is ultimately cheaper than going through 3 or 4 junk flatheads before finding one that's buildable.

For those who are hesitant to build a flathead, but aren't ready to surrender to running a sbc, consider an eary Olds or Cadillac. They've still got that vintage look factor, and even in stock form will outrun most of the flatheads on the street. They're also relatively affordable---I bought a complete '55 324 last fall for $125.00 and, after selling the valve covers and hydramatic, ended up with a free engine.

 

Great thread!!!-----I'll still stand by my page 1 theory!------Don

 

Simple... If all your friends are telling you to go with an SBC, get new friends.

 

You're right and I apologize for getting my history backwards - I'm not a Chevy guy even tho I've had a few. The original question wasn't flatty vs sbc, but the thread did turn that way on the first page.

For those who want to learn about flatheads, it's hard to beat the info on the website here:

http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/flathead.htm

 

Frankly, if I didn't already have a great running flathead in what I bought, it would never cross my mind to pursue one. I've just become pro-flathead after being lucky (or unlucky?) enough to experience one first hand. If it ever craps out, I probably wouldn't replace it.

I know, I sound hypocritical...

 

Here is my solution to the whole thing. I am building a 31 Tudor on 32 pinched rails. I have installed two sets of motor mounts. One is for my 3/4 race flattie (because they are about as cool as you can get), and the other is for my Algon injected Pontiac 455. Both have a T-5 trans on the back, and use the same trans mount and driveshaft.I figure a couple hours swap, depending on the mood I'm in. Super cool, or really fast. Also have a quick change rear end to get the results I want. Hey, it's cheaper than building two cars!

 

I went through 4 blocks and they all had cracks that made them too expensive to repair. I then found a 59 block on CL that had been magged and cleaned. That was a bare block with mains that I paid $500 for. Since sold that for the same price I paid for it. Now have a 52 Mercury Engine that my wife bought me to save on the expense of rebuilding one. Can't wait to get it in the chassis and fired up.

 

Your wife have a sister?

All I can say is you did good twice.

 

I picked up an 8ba last fall, it had been sitting in a guys garage for a while. Had a couple stuck valves, but we had it running in less than 2 hours. I never thought I would run a flathead, but now I couldn't live without it. It runs good, only cost me $200, and came with tranny.

 

53' Merc...does the old rule of both heads with in 10 degrees of each other, still hold? (right side is always hotter) Any suggestions as to timeing for a car that has to climb 3000 ft in a 13 mile distance at the end of a trip to and from the city?

 

Does your 53 have a stock distributor in it? If it does, turn the advance spring posts, (they have an elliptical base on them) to tighten the advance springs. This will keep the distributor from advancing so much. Will make a flatty run lots better.

 

I don't think so.

 

These are some things I think you need to know.

Flat head V8s intimidate most mechanics and machinists, know your stuff, tell them what you want instead of fix it. Knowledge is power here. The same can be said for any vintage engine. Some of the more unscrupulous will charge an insane price thinking anyone who builds an engine like this must be loaded with dough.

Nothing starts like a flat head. Barley bump the starter button and its running. If you have problems cranking a flat head something is wrong.

Flat head engines are so simple they're complicated.

Never run a flat head or any engine without a thermostat or at least a flat washer baffle with a 1/2 inch hole in it's place. The water goes too fast through the block without one causing overheating.

Unlike OHV engines cams and lifter can be reused as there is not as much strain on these components like in an OHV engine.

There is one hidden bolt on the water pumps. It's in the bottom outlet. More than one pump has been busted by overzealous prying.

You can overheat one side of the engine. That's why I ran two temp gauges.

They seem to sip gas in stock form.

Cast iron heads are fine for a street car. Actually I prefer them. The simpler the better.

In stock form with headers and dual pipes a 3100 lb 50 Coupe is very peppy. In a light vehicle like a T or A roadster it would scream.

Assuming all you need is a basic rebuild it's no more expensive to build than a small block Ford. If they want to charge more see line one. The perfect scenario is to have the basic machine work done, study up on them and assemble it yourself.

Here are some tricks to evaluate a running flathead. When the car is cool open the radiator cap and smell. It should smell like coolant. It should not smell like gasoline. When the engine is running you should see the coolant circulate. When the engine is revved the coolant level may rise but it should not erupt like a volcano. Obviously you should not look into the opening when the engine is revved and or attempt to open it when it is hot. The smell of gasoline in the coolant and it erupting like a volcano with the cap off when revved are signs of a blown head gasket or crack. It may idle all day and never get hot. On the road the coolant blows out the overflow and is gone within 2 miles.

Also if it has duals if one pipe steams all the time, that's not a good sign. With that said there could be some reason for that such as water being sprayed up the tail pipe or condensation.

Do not forget about water in the oil or vice versa. If the dipstick looks like it was dipped in a chocolate milkshake, that's a bad sign. There may be some water on the upper part of the dipstick that will show as a yellowish goo. If the there is not a lot of this and the oil looks normal on the stick otherwise it may be perfectly fine. True there is water in the block to cause this but if an engine is cranked and ran for a few minutes and shut down, it will not reach a hot enough temperature to burn the condensation off. Keep this in mind with a steaming pipe if it is driven for half an hour and still steaming it may be suspect.

 

[QUOTE=Deuce Daddy Don;If you are planning on just putting around town or short distances, SURE, build a flattie!-----BUT, if you plan on going out of state or cross country, take into consideration the non availability of flathead parts, and/or componants.
...sorry this is BS,and here is why, many many people,and i dont have to tell you how many its obvious, drove across country and back again before the OHV came into play.I drive mine everywhere,interstate included,never over heated and never broke down.Why because i built it right.And as for the non availability of flathead parts....you must not get out much.Do a search on flathead parts see what you come up with.A million and one places to get parts.Just ask H&H Flatheads in california.

 

Max.....that's pretty funny

 

Any thoughts on preferred timing as opposed to factory (2 degrees BTC)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

 

i got my 49' 8ba from a dump truck that had been parked for years...it did have a hood covering the motor and there was anti-freeze in the engine so i risked it and bought it...tune up..starter rebuild..and it ran.compression test reveled low compression in 2 cylinders.but im not scared!!..recently hooked it up to the radiator...no water in oil...no steam out exhaust ports...so i can assume it is not cracked...i do plan on breaking it down and washing out 50 yrs of sludge and cleaning water ports..new rings...new main bearings , gaskets i think i can do this for 300 bucks or so depending on condition of valves..and try running down the road..i simply on putting around town and maybe some shows 200 miles away...certianly don't plan of drag racing..but as it stands im happy with my 100hp flatty...as it sits i have a 49 8ba..40 ford 3 speed trans and 46 closed drive shaft rearend...anyone know the gear ratio of a 46 rearend?.
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I've got a flattie in my 40 Ford (actually the one that came in it) and like it so far. Do I really have to change the oil every 500 miles?

 

Does anyone make a fan shroud for a 53' Merc?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

 

I think you will find it to be 3.78 :1 ratio

 

New to the forum, and enjoyed reading this thread. I'm starting a 1941 international k-2 pickup project, and found two 8BA engines for it.
the first came off CL. 250 bucks for the engine (minus carb, distributor, fuel pump), two transmissions (top loader and side loader), several carbs in a box, 5 or 6 emergency brake lines, several bell housings of different types, and a bunch of trim for the front end of a 51 ford pickup.
just took the engine apart yesterday. took about 4 hours to get it down to bare block. If I'd replaced the oil pump and assembled the rest of the engine, it would have run. doesn't even have a ridge in the cylinders. no cracks, either.

the second engine came off online auction. This one came out of a 51 sedan, and sat for years covered with disentegrating plastic. 265 bucks for the engine, attached fordomatic transmission, crossmember for the transmission, and radiator. engine was complete to the air breather.
took 5 days to disassemble. 2 cracks in each deck between head bolt hole and water ports. had to cut the rods in half, remove the crank, and put a 1 inch pipe over the rod stubs to drive the pistons out through the rust in the cylinders. Also had to use a hammer and punch to drive out the valve guides.
block is probably usable, but the cracks will have to be fixed and looks like 3 or 4 cylinders will have to be sleeved. may be able to bore it without needing sleeves, but I'll have to get the machine shop to check it out.

These are my new guy experiences in finding a good flathead. 50/50 so far, and I probably got lucky with the first engine.

looking forward to fulling the flathead straight 6 out of the international and putting the v-8 in. should have plenty of clearance at the front, at least!

y'all have a good day, and good luck finding an engine. Keith

 

most were 9 34 or 3.78:1 you can check on the center rib underneath yje banjo center section for the stamped #'s