Would it be kosher to use a rear end with welded spider gears (Lincoln Locker) in an HA/GR? Thanks, Kurt
And, it should be noted that a person can scrounge a used posi unit off of a "popular auction site" for about a hundred bucks. Used is better than welded.
I am going to run a welded dif in my banjo with wagon axles this year. Next year she gets a one-off custom full spool.
Running lower power I don't feel that traction is going to be my problem, but personally, I feel that with a "full width" rear axle an "open differential" is a big safety factor as in the situation where you break an axle, the car isn't going to want to turn into the wall. Don't know how good your reactions are, but at full throttle, by the time you become aware of the problem you are pretty much just along for the ride.
Welding on the spiders screws up the tensil strength of the gears and they do break..And they do make a big mess out of the rear end when they do..Pop for a few bucks and get something better..Will save you $$$$ in the long run.....
All right, just who the hell's running their HAMBster around on their local streets? Certainly not I, said the crow ............. One of my longest running irritations is rules that're applied to cars below the intended performance levels those rules address. But this one's valid even for HA/GR's mild level. Any form of locker's strain enough on the parts of course (including posies as well), but crystalizing those parts with a burner to boot just isn't the way to longevity. No pattern of heat soaking can retemper'em evenly enough to regain their original strength. That, and Tom's point about full width locked rears with broken axles becoming all too effective levers is hard, cold physics. If you want to run locked it's wisdom to see to it that the parts are well beyond what you're capable of breaking.
Last year I helped a friend finish his '54 Ford. Big block Mopar, 727, and '59 9" with 4.56 and mini spool. 3 weeks after finishing he was trying to beat the rain home from a car show. Ran through a puddle with one wheel. At 35ish mph INSTANT left turn, center punched a tree. 80+ stitches in his face. He'll be running a limited slip from now on.
Alright, I've gotta line on a Dana 44 off of Craigslist, so the junkyard ones are off the chopping block. Next questions: What about a spool/mini-spool, and what's the difference? And no, I don't plan to drive an HA/GR to get groceries. Thanks, Kurt
Mini spool replaces the spider gears and uses the stock carrier, while a full spool replaces the entire spinning carrier, and you bolt the ring gear to it. It's lighter and stronger and more expensive. On the main forum you're using the justification that the car is light and underpowered to go with a smaller rearend. Once it's sorted out, the lack of power will just make you decide to hit it even harder on the line. That's how it goes with drag cars. And when you pop the low power motor by wishing it had 10 more horse and revving it a little too far, the next motor will have a little more power. That's how it goes with drag cars. Real soon you outgrew the rearend in the car, that's how it goes with drag cars. Seriously, by the time you price all this out, and factor in the wide availability of used 9" ford parts for gear tuning....the cheapest drag racing diff you'll find is a 9". Call circle track places and price out an offset housing to your exact specs, it's a decision you won't regret. I've broke several medium duty rearends in lightweight cars, it ain't that hard. good luck either way!
In addition, on many non-pumpkin rears you can pull the spiders and pop in a mini without having to pull the carrier and disturb the ring/pinion set-up.
FWIW on the 'lincoln lockers' I've been involved with we would place a bolt between the gear teeth (spider and side gears, 4 places) and weld that in (extra filler, less heat reqired too). It's not preferred, but it is cheap (just make sure to get all the slag and weld spatter out, the bearings really don't like it ).
FWIW and slightly off-subject, I've never seen, or heard of, an axle breaking under load. It's possible though. What seems to, almost invariably, break axles is "hopping". If your car "axle hops" get off the throttle because the rapid loading and unloading of the axles create torsional-- ah twisting--well, stuff....you know.
Back in the early '60s I broke an axle in a '50 Chevy after much abuse on launches.......never had any "wheel hop". Ditto on the rear in a '41 Merc with a built flathead, no wheel hop, but spiral fractured the axle shaft quite nicely. Both cars had open rears and both times it was the right axle. Attribute both to dropping the clutch on high rev launches, heavy flywheels, not high horsepower.
Every broken axle I've seen has been on launch, no wheel hop, and always ended up in the wall... Now, to answer your question. In my opinion if you want a true live axle, I would go with a spool. They are cheap enough.
Even one of our own has broken an axle.. In 07 at the HAMB drags, I believe that cowboy broke one coming off of the line in the finals. It put him into both rails at about half track. Luckily he was fine but the front end of the rail sustained a lot of damage. Robert
been there done that on a stocker during a race. Not fun when they let go. maybe you should do it the right way.
Roger, wilco. The picture is poor as to not give away technical secrets. It's supposed to have a 3.54 gear, it's offset to the passenger side about a foot, it was cheap enough, and it's a heavy sombitch. I'll put a spool or mini-spool in it.
Be sure to count your axle splines before you get the mini spool, don't believe what someone else said.
I think it's about time to bring this subject up. Most of you are using or going to use parts that have been down the road a few times, or more. Just to protect your butt, it would be a good idea to have your axels(front and rears), spindles, and steering parts inspected by the proper nondestructive method. I don't know a lot of you guys(racers) but I don't want to hear about any crashes or worse that could have been prevented. It only take a few minutes and could save your life or that of a fellow racer or a spectator. Please think about the parts your wanting to use and what they may have encountered before they were put in your hands. Safe racing guys.
Anyone remember when . . . if you wanted supercharged, overdrive and positraction all in one car, it had to be a Studeaker? Well, back then we welded spider gears to the case because no one made spools. So, trial and error proved that it could be done successfully. (On a 9" Ford HD Station Wagon carrier) 1. Remove all gears and bearings from the case 2. Bake the grease out of the case & drive gears - 24 hrs at 250 degrees - a welding rod oven works nice 3. Let cool, brush away burnt grease, clean with brake-clean, (used to be carbon tetrachloride which is now illegal) 4. Throw away the idlers, shaft & shims 5. Clamp drive gear tight to case - so welding will not pull gear away from case on far side and out of alignment with axle centerline 6. Pre-heat case & drive gear to 500 degrees - use rose bud to get even heat at least 3" from weld area - use tempil heat stick to confirm 6. Use 1/8" Welco Super Missle Weld electrodes on DC reverse at 110 amps - weld only 1/4 of the way around on each side - do not leave end crater in weld bead 7. Cover immediately in a sand box to allwo slow cooling (asbestos blankets are also illegal now) 8. Re-assemble - adjust gear lash - install When done properly, the pinion retainer bolts will shear and launch the pinion out through the front destroying the driveshaft, or the axles will shear, or the U-joints will snap, or the clutch hub will disintegrate before the home made locker will fail. As for going in circles baecause an axle failed with a spool or welded locker . . . hmmm. Experience has shown that driving a locker on pavement, whether street or track, requires super reflexes, practice and a heap of good luck. Rear tire diameters and air pressure must match perfectly or when the front gets light the machine will turn itself. If your machine gets light in the front, better change something. Driving a locker on the street in the rain is just asking for it. Try to turn . . . front slides . . . back goes straight . . . OUCH!!! Lockers are for dirt machines with plenty of HP to keep the rears spinning when you need to make a turn. Hard to keep your drivers liscence when making a turn pulling away from a stop light requires spinning the rear tires. The Cops think you're driving wreckless??? Guess they just don't appreciate a tight machine. Good luck!
FWIW I am not going to run a welded dif anymore, I am going to run open this year at least. My modified spider gears came home today.
Please forgive a newb for bringing back a dead thread. I drive daily on a welded D44 on 35 x 12.50 inch tires under a 5400 pound box with 220,000 miles on it. 4 or 6 times a year, I drive said box 200 to 400 miles to go four-wheel the ever-living crap out of this truck. And then I drive it home again. This truck has been welded for 4 yrs / 50,000 miles now. Yes, it's harder on tires; good thing I usually get them at swap meets. Yes, it makes a little noise going around corners in a parking lot. But seriously, a little more noise? SFW. Yes, you might have to think about what you are doing. This is my third welded-rear daily-driver rig. 35's on two of them, and 40x17 Gumbo's on one (14B 10.5 GM rear in that case). I have more than a few friends who drive different rigs, on different axles. But nobody that I know that DD's a welded rear has any regrets. The only ones who ever had any regrets that I have known were guys who did a poor job of welding the diff. I can't speak to what rules you might be up against. And the 'what-if' of breaking an axle shaft is real. But the metallurgy is not a problem, for those who have their concerns about the weld job itself. The nuisance items are just that, a nuisance - no more. Ok, asbestos underwear on. Flame the new guy for bringing up a dead thread and applying experience that has no bearing on the situation. BTW - to the guy who bought the offset Dana44 - If it came with 6-lug axles, it came from underneath a Jeep Wagoneer/Cherokee. I have more shafts if you find that you need them.
Since ours isn't running yet, I can truthfully say that we're not currently driving the HAGR out on the street!
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