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Looking for method to thread water pump heater hose

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by XXL__, Jan 31, 2010.

  1. nutajunka
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,464

    nutajunka

    At the end of this thread there better be a picture of you with a sledgehammer smashing the $shit out of your old cast waterpump or I'm going to be yery disappointed...:rolleyes:
     
  2. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    But if it's NPT on both ends he will need another fitting to go from the NPT to AN (which he said he wanted to run) or SAE (which may be what the car has) Why pile fitting on fitting? Why not do a clean deal with one fitting that has the end you want?
     
  3. RAG66
    Joined: Jun 1, 2008
    Posts: 160

    RAG66
    Member
    from WASHINGTON

    We all want to see a smashed up cast iron pump and the freshly installed aluminum pump. The set up you are trying to do is kinda cool in my book. Looks like you have a good plan with the threaded hard lines, looks cool too with the greenish lines. I have nothing bad to say about your process. I for one run on the same path of extreme frustration when I do stuff like this. You're trying to improve on the original design and make it look cool and last.... more power to you!
     
  4. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    AN fittings normally need an adapter, not unusual, if he has an aluminum pump, he can grind the an threads off of -6- to 3/8 adapter, drive it down into hole on the pump, and tig it on, this will give him 3/8 male threads he can screw a flare fitting on.
     
  5. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,117

    XXL__
    Member

    Thanks for the correction. AN is 37°, SAE is 45° (note, Aeroquip also specs in their "AN" catalog, 40° and 45° oddball fittings... that was the page I was on when I grabbed the number 45. Aeroquip makes some pretty odd stuff for military and other specialty applications).

    As for the pic... I'm not looking for AN, but rather "brake line 3/8" ... the female version of what you'd pick up at NAPA in a stick with loose fittings flared onto both ends. I won't buy it until I can touch it... as was Meddler intimated in his post.
     
  6. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,117

    XXL__
    Member

    RAG66 for President!
     
  7. dave lewis
    Joined: Dec 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,378

    dave lewis
    Member
    from Nampa ID

    OK Rich. I see the confusion here. He is not using EITHER AN or SAE.
    He is using 3/8 automotive style inverted flare..
    All I am saying is to trim off one end of the pipe coupler and tig it to the aluminum pump. Then he can screw in the same fitting he has already used to plumb the other lines..That way it matches what is already in place...
    XXL, Have you solved this yet today ? I may have an easy solution for you...
    Call my cell # 831-262-7294..
    I think we can put an end to this long, drawn out thread !
    Dave:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2010
  8. plym49
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,802

    plym49
    Member
    from Earth

    Assisted suicide?
     
  9. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,117

    XXL__
    Member

    Here's a bit of spec I got from the place that sold me the first batch of brass fittings for this project (Valley Hydraulic Service, in IL).

    [​IMG]
     
  10. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Which is an SAE inverted flare. rather unusual for this application. But if that is what you want. Go for it.
     
  11. I don't like flairs in high vibration areas. The flairs crack at the base, the more you have hanging on them the worse they crack.
     
  12. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,117

    XXL__
    Member

    This is off-the-shelf brake line hardware used on just about every make and model vehicle you could imagine. I'm comfortable with its ability to work in this low pressure situation. It's hard-mounted on both ends to the engine... so it's all moving together. Hopefully you won't have the chance to say "I told you so."
     
  13. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    My brakes work fine. I would bet money your water line will not crack from vibration. I have seen a lot of AN flared lines on large overwater aircraft. If they were prone to cracking a lot of people would be swimming .
     
  14. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,117

    XXL__
    Member

    Many thanks to Dave Lewis for helping me out with a tap and another brass fitting. I spent the better part of an hour this evening slowly running the tap, keeping the threads and hole clean and oiled. I took the threads into the pump about 1/4" beyond the reach of the threads on the fitting to make sure I didn't bottom out the fitting. I then gave the fitting a good coat of anti-gall/sealant and threaded it in. On about the 3rd turn, I got this...

    [​IMG]

    I didn't think I could get any more dejected before tonight... but I was wrong.
     
  15. Geez...
    Sorry dude. :(

    Can you cut it above the crack and try again?
     
  16. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    I would never say "I told you so" but you may want to go back and reread my post #45. Now I would go back to looking at a steel nipple brazzed or soldered to the iron or an aluminum nipple tigged to the aluminum. You might be able to sloder that fitting to that pump. It is iron isn't it? "We have not begun to fight"
     
  17. jeepman
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 50

    jeepman
    Member
    from az

    now that i realize what you are trying to do, since it cracked, some waterpumps have a pipe thread hose barb. try to find one of those , then either find or make a fitting with the waterpump thread on one end and the tube fitting on the other. i'm a machinist and rebuild obsolete waterpumps sounds easy huh? [email protected] 623-205-4482
     
  18. blown49
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,212

    blown49
    Member Emeritus

    This is a thread about an internal thread that wouldn't die and a tap that wouldn't tap.

    Jim
     
  19. plym49
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,802

    plym49
    Member
    from Earth

    Holy crap, when I first saw the above post I thought "yay, finally!". Unfortunately, another false alarm. Good thing this is not something hard like building a rocket or sequencing a genome. OK, that was cold. I'm just saying.
     
  20. rotten egg
    Joined: Dec 17, 2009
    Posts: 59

    rotten egg
    Member

    Really nice picture though.
     
  21. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,117

    XXL__
    Member

    The "I told you so's" have all be very helpful. Thank you *cough cough*

    Vehicle is currently running, as I've applied a nice balance of kaizen and hokey-assness... I threaded a 3/8"-to-1/2" face washer onto the current fitting, gave the line a slight hand bend, and slipped a 2" long piece of 3/4" hose over the cracked cast pump outlet and over the 1/2" threads, and clamped it down. It's uglier than a man's ass, but I got to drive it around the block, so I could claim some very small victory.

    I still have the TIG welding plan at my disposal, so long as I can find an aluminum fitting. Based on this info from the _brass_ fitting supplier...

    [​IMG]

    ... I'm looking for a 5/8" threaded part with, apparently, EITHER a 42° or 45° flare. (It doesn't matter???) ... my flare tool says it puts on a 45°, and I flared one end of each line. Based on the chart info for a 3/8" line, I'm looking for a 5/8" -18... which appears to be this from Russell (labeled as a -6AN to 5/8" -18)--

    [​IMG]

    I have some newfound free time this week, so I'm going to try to find my way over to the East Bay and see if either of the places MEDDLER1 mentioned have anything. If not, I'll make one more call to Russell and/or Summit, then just order the stupid part. If it's what I need, I'll ship it down to Dave Lewis for his TIG assistance (he's easier to access than the guy I first mentioned in the thread).
     
  22. dadseh
    Joined: May 13, 2001
    Posts: 526

    dadseh
    Member

    Please dont let this thread die NOW!!!, I just spent a good hour and fifteen minutes reading the whole sad story.,
    Sorry, but as an old GM Supplier Quality Engineer ( retired), I cant help but notice that the AL pump housing was doomed to failure , did anybody else notice the cold shut in the casting running away from the crack and continuing up along the center line of the housing. you can follow it up the right hand side of the casting and then it moves back and continues up the center of the casting. It was obviously cracked along the weaked die cast join when the AL was poured into the mould...usually incorrect die temps or the start of a pour.

    (sorry, Ill go back in my box now....)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  23. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,117

    XXL__
    Member

    The one thing Russell doesn't bother to tell you is, that on a page (nay, an entire CATALOG) full of aluminum parts, this _1_ part is steel. Bastages.

    However, I have parts from Vic Hubbard that should work... switching to 37° flare, and reversing the male and female locations. I have one Earl's #997106ERL, which is a -6 male weld fitting, and Russell 660651 & 660571, which are a nut and sleeve combo that fit to the hard line. If this doesn't work, then gasoline and match just may be next.

    Now... to get it TIG welded, including the casting flaw that dadseh mentions and that I noticed the moment I inspected the crack. Unfortunately, it's hard for me to try to return a part for "materials and workmanship" issues when I've drilled and tapped it. Maybe I should be less scrupulous.
     
  24. ironpile
    Joined: Jul 3, 2005
    Posts: 915

    ironpile
    Member

    Use the proper size hose for a few inches then reduce it down to your size.Reducers are available in brass,copper and galvinized. So much easier than what you have in mind.
     
  25. XXL__
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,117

    XXL__
    Member

    The above means a hose, 2 clamps, "reducer," and still needs a fitting to the hard line. Not only is that not particularly "easier," but it sounds very unattractive, which defeats the entire purpose of this exercise as laid out in my OP.
     
  26. plym49
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,802

    plym49
    Member
    from Earth

    I've seen marks like that in castings forever. Now I know one thing they could mean. Thanks!!!!
     
  27. plym49
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,802

    plym49
    Member
    from Earth

    If you are going to TIG, why all the heartache over starting with the most Zacherly fitting. (You know Zacherly, that's when someone's breath smells Zacherly like their farts.) Just grab any fitting that attaches to your hard line and build up the rest with weld OR play matchmaker with an aluminum slug.

    Way too much catalog hopping going on here. Just do it, mon.
     
  28. nutajunka
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,464

    nutajunka

    Back to the drawing board, again...:rolleyes:
     
  29. ironpile
    Joined: Jul 3, 2005
    Posts: 915

    ironpile
    Member

    Where do you say you are using hard lines? I was only trying to help,their is no need to come back with a smart ass reply.I do know how to do what you want but I`m not going to tell you because of your attitude. No place for that on this forum.
     
  30. CoolHand
    Joined: Aug 31, 2007
    Posts: 1,929

    CoolHand
    Alliance Vendor

    I would forget about finding an aluminum inverted flare adapter that is exactly like you want it, and instead go with two. One to weld into the pump body, and one to adapt the tube to THAT fitting.

    For example, get one of part #51211 from Go2Marine (which is a 3/8" tube female inverted flare x 3/8" male NPT adapter), and couple that with one of part #44705K318 from McMaster Carr (which is an aluminum half coupling, 3/8" female NPT x weld).

    Weld the half coupling to the pump when you have the crack fixed, and then thread the adapter into that coupling using the sealant of your choice.

    Then lead a happy and less leaky life. :D

    If you are worried about the fix showing, after it has been welded, but before you reassemble the pump, have the housing shot peened with very coarse media. The resulting finish will hide the repair very well by blending the smooth area into the mottled as-cast surface. Then all that shows is the adapter, just like all your other hook ups.

    And do post pictures when you've bashed that cast iron pump into little bits.

    Also, just an aside for the future, when you need to buy Taps or Dies, go to MSC Industrial Supply and only buy tools made by the OSG, Greenfield, Balax, or Cleveland brands, and only in HSS or Cobalt HSS.

    The cost is ~5% more, but they will cut a thousand holes after that hardware store tap has broken in half.

    Get the spiral fluted version, and the chips come out in long ribbons, which means no "in a half turn, out a full turn, in a half turn, out a full turn" crap.

    Good cutting tools will repay you ten times what they cost initially.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010

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