This is for the body guys ,I just bought a tube and it says do not apply over fresh topcoated primer ,Does this mean I let have to dry for a day .Or is an hour ok ,Im ready to prime 1 quarter and I want to glaze it .Tomorrows plan
First of all lets get our terminology straight. Icing is a thinned bondo type filler that requires a catalyst to cure. Glazing putty/painter's putty is just unthinned paint. It cures slowly, and is mainly intended for pinhole repairs. If used for a final fill it will continue to shrink after it has been topcoated, which leads to it's rather poor reputation. If you are spraying primer and hen intending to apply icing to fix your work you are wasting time/materials. this is a poor proceedure. Get the repair done right before priming! Dan Stevens dba, Steelsmith
Only to fill in the sand scratches .And that's all .I Prime and then Ice .Wetsand ,,,Then After that I will reprime .Im use to doing the old fashioned way ,Using Nitro stan . Im upgrading to icing that you mix with hardener ,Panel is straight and finished in 80..
That's the way I used to finish back in the day, then I started to try to finish my body work out further before I primed and found out it was quicker that way, not to mention worrying about the nitrostan shrinking back. So, if you feel the need to fill some pinholes or scratches in the filler work, use the icing before priming. Just a thought. Brian
Be careful on some colors you top coat with. Make sure you seal the pannel before you paint I've had some die back (icing hardener color) coming through on some white interior pieces i painted once. Had to sand seal and repaint.
IMO, when dealing with a (good) catalyzed product you have a lot more flexibility, I don't think it matters much whether you use the product over primer or under so long as you give the primer enough flash time for the solvents to escape before covering it up.
I second Master on None. Bleed through on light colors with the cheap red hardener is a problem. I never use a non catalysed filler like spot putty. It was ok 20 years ago but you should always use catalysed products and make sure you cover everything with catalysed filler primer and then seal everything to get a uniform color over the entire vehicle. Be careful with sealer colors as they can change topcoat colors...Any other info dont hesitate to call 702-683-5143 Dave...
It takes a bit of adjustment... but stop short of finishing your work with 80, guide coat your filler, and finish with 180 before priming. I use icing for pinholes and paper thin corrections for low spots...that's about it. You don't need to do it the old lacquer way anymore. Getting a feel for when to stop with the 80 will save you from re-coating.
You are correct is saying that Icing is a thinner body filler but these products are known as glazing putties. So his terminology is correct. Icing is a catalysed product if guys are getting bleed through with it it is a result of catalysation errors either too much or not enough. The time would be dependant on what type of primer you have sprayed.
Why primer it first?????????? Do your filler work as best you can, finish to 80 grit or 150. Then if you need some VERY fine filling, use the Icing, and you can finish it in 180 or 220. Primer afterwards will take care of any 180 scratches. If you guidecoat and find problems later on down the line, you can use it again, but your primer should be well cured by then anyhow. Only use it for tiny imperfections, dont' use it thicker than about 1/16 or 1/32 preferably.
I've never had a problem with Nitrostan over CURED primer. Once the first primer coat is fully cured, you should be able to use either a single stage or catalyzed spot filler of your choice. Bob
I've had HORRIBLE luck with Icing. I was using it and it would NEVER dry and I ended up having to scrape it off then redo the whole quarter I was working on. It would not cure. Don't know if I got a bad batch or what, but I guess I won't find out as I'll never buy it again. I use glazing putty over primer without any issues then seal and paint.
Terminology issue, back in the late '70's 'glazing putty' was spot putty/painter's putty non-catalysed non-thinned paint. It wasn't until Evercoat bought the name for their catalysed thinned bondo product (which is pretty good stuff) that it became associated with a final filler product. This may have been before 3M bought the painter's putty stuff. I just don't remember ... I do remember that the Evercoat product caused me some confusion as I thought it was a weird way to package the painter's putty when it was so easy to apply from a tube! It wasn't until I asked some questions that I found out there was a different product going by the name I'd always seen on the big tube of painter's putty. Just wanted to make sure we were all talking about the same thing here! Dan Stevens dba, Steelsmith
Well I decided to prime first using ,Durabuild primer ,I will spread the icing with the hardner tonight and wet sand tomorrow ,Ill jump to the trunk for a day ,Just trying to get away from nitro-stan .I never had any problems with it ,I think now it's reformulated says can topcoat with Urethane ,I know laquer primers will lift with urethane ,So anyway ,Thanks for all the reply's .This is the first time Im using Icing and I have heard nothing but good from all the painters I know ,Ive tried the Dynatron gold and that stuff is a rock to sand.
I started reading this thread and it seemed like it was going on with good info, but the type of primer was missing in the thread. I wasn't familiar with "dura build" so I googled it and there is a potential problem with the Icing and the Dura Build. Dura Build is a noncatalyzed primer--acrylic (lacquer)--an air dry soluable product. Icing is a catalyzed polyester filler. It will work over the acrylic lacquer primer, but the primer needs to be very dry and sanded for mechanical adhesion. If you use nitrostan, which is basically thick lacquer primer, it is the same material as the lacquer primer, non catalyzed and soluable. When using Icing over lacquer primer, later applications of primer, paint, or clear, will allow solvents to soak into the lacquer products (underneath) and they will swell slightly. The Icing will not soak the solvents (as much) and as the whole area drys and cures you will get uneven shrinking or "mapping" which will most likely show up after the paint cures. With all the good catalyzed primers, putties, and fillers on the market, using all catalyzed products will eliminate most of the shrinking and mapping. Mixing noncatalyzed primers and putties will definately have more potential for these problems. Just a heads up. This was one of the most significant problems for painters/bodymen as paint systems changed in the late 70's early 80's when base/clear and catalyzed primers evolved into systems. overspray
Hmm ,That's interesting ,I haven't done anything yet but prime.........What about mixing this combo with an Enamel paint job .I use to use half time filler and then nitro stan ,CAR WILL BE BLACK PROBABLY Centari 99 a .I would do it the new way ,But the cost is a factor ,Im familiar with it ,But that point you just brought up never even crossed my mind .
I think you would be better off putting the Icing directly over your bondo, then finish sand, then your lacquer primer and acrylic enamel should work fine. I've used Icing directly over bondo for years.......no problems. My 2 cents...
That's the best way to use it if you are using lacquer primer. Or if you like Evercoat Dura Build, try some featherfill or easy sand. It will give you a catalyzed undercoat/primer and it's pretty reasonable in the cost. Switching from lacquer to catalyzed primers is going to mean you can't leave it in the gun between priming sessions and you have to clean the gun thouroughly each time. The above system that RMR&C listed is what most of the other guys do. Just follow that and replace a good catalyzed hi build surfacer for the lacquer primer. Plan your priming as a final step and the cost will probably not be a factor. A quart of featherfill will fill about what 2 1/2 qts of dura build will. With the proper temperatures for curing and drying, you will have cured primer, ready to sand, that will fill 80# scratch (and actually more--but don't abuse it) in several hours, as opposed to overnight for a fair to good dry time for lacquer. The catalyzed primer will have much less shrinking from soaking solvents making the finished paint better for color holdout and gloss (nite and day difference). With todays base/clear systems, you are basically painting the car/job twice compared to the acrylic enamel or single stage paints. That means roughly twice the solvents to soak into your lacquer (soluable) undercoats/primers. Holding back the solvents so they do their job in flowing and leveling the color/paint, and not soaking into the undercoats, is the major benefit of catalyzed primers and undercoats, along with better moisture and chemical resistance. There are lots of good reasonably priced products to choose from. overspray overspray
I've always felt that the more different types of material that you use, the more potential you will have for problems. I get my metal as close as possible, light coat of plastic (if required) and prime. Years ago, occasionally I would use nitro stan, but found that if could create problems.
Since I have very limited patience, I have no use for nitrostan and the like, and for that matter I don't have any use for ANY uncatylized products. They are so yesterday.. Speaking of "yesterday" and Centari, I had 5 gallons of Centari left over from some years back. A few days ago I decided to use it up on a trailer I was painting as a billboard. I sent mt son to the paint store to get some 793A and some 8022, (hardener and reducer) and the jobber told him that Centari was obsolete and that these products were not available, but he sent my son some generic stuff to get the job done. It has been a while since I shot Centari, it was a nice throwback and a reminder that I like the way centari smells (smells way better than anything else) and it laid down pretty damn sweet, too bad it is a bygone era, but I still have 2 1/2 gallons.... >> after posting here I saw the "looking for a single stage gloss black" thread... my Centari remarks would have fit there better...
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