Diving Off the Deep End: My 1956 Buick Project

from the earlier posts of motors and work, sounds like you need a sbc chevy, the best...hahah

 

Huh? What does that even mean? Your post makes no sense to me. A small block chevy chevy? I've heard of a small block chevy before.

Ryland

 

I'll tell you how I did it( Brakes on the 56 Olds )
It came with no master cyl at all, but the books all said the original was a 1 inch bore... so...I used a remanufactured M/C for a 1966 chevelle, also 1 inch.
I had to build a frame mounting plate( I looked over a TCI unit for inspiration).
Now I had the stock wheel cylinders resleeved only to realize later that the chevelle wheel cyl's would have worked fine, and been cheeper( the front to rear brake bias is handeled by the wheel cyl bore sizes).
NOW the M/C is going bad after 12 years, and the scarebird conversion looks really cool.
So... I,m going to bolt on a 67-69 master cyl because it a safer "dual" type cylinder,and I will need it for the front disc conversion (later).
When the disc come I will then need the proportioning valve to limit some pressure to the rear drums (adjustable)
I believe the frame is pretty similar between the Buick and the Olds in 56.
BUT, if you dont mind messing with the firewall, you could hang a swinging pedal (off a later full sized car) and have alot better access to the M/C, plus power brakes.
I wanted to keep the drivers side vent.
I hope some of the helps.
feel free to PM if you want

 

Hey, also,
I ran big 75 full size olds radiator, in front of the core support, Holesawed big holes in the tin for the hoses. But I needed more room for the 455

 

Buick had some of the better brakes available in the '50s and I wouldn't be in a big hurry to change them out for disc brakes. Measure the bores of the existing master cylinder and wheel cylinders. Generally speaking, if you keep wheel cylinder bore sizes the same and you match the existing bore size of your master cylinder with a later model replacement, you get one that won't change pedal pressure or travel. Disregarding push rod length and brake line changes, as long you have got enough room to fit the replacement (and any needed brackets) in the same space as the original, you've got a winner.

While you're looking for a reasonable cost replacement for that original master, you might as find a split master cylinder. Splitting the system won't necessarily give you brakes that can stop you in the event of a failure, but even slowing you down a little might save you an accident. Should be tons of '67 up drum brake split masters out there that could be adapted if you don't luck out with a straight bolt on. Getting a distribution block meant to be used with one of these split masters simplifies running the brake lines.

Don't forget most master cylinders don't usually come with residual valves anymore. If the master is under the floor you can't depend on any cup expanders supplied in replacement wheel cylinders and will need to add them (10 PSI for drum brakes).

 

There is no prop valve, just a one-in/two-out distribution block in the middle of the car going to the rear wheels. With the exception of the master cylinder, NAPA has everything you need to rebuild the entire brake system end-to-end, and it's cheap. I think my front wheel cylinders were about $9 each and the rears were about $20 each. The only thing they wanted cores for were the brake shoes.

A friend of mine converted his Buick's manual brake setup to power brakes with a mid-60's Lincoln dual-reservoir master cylinder.

I am very picky about brakes and was sure only disc brakes would satisfy me, but after getting my Buick's all-drum setup rebuilt properly, I was honestly impressed with how well the system works.

 

Because my Buick is a '56 has manual brakes no one makes a rebuild for it. So I would just use a master off another car but the majority of cars I have found use a 1" bore master cylinder and none use a 17/32" like my Buick does so I can't just use on of them stock. Do any of you know if I could use some sort of proportioning valve to up the pressure from a 1" master cylinder to work with my break system?

Thanks,
Ryland

 

that will be a great wagon when your done. keep up the good work.

 

Ive found some 1/2 master cylinders made for motorcycles and go carts, is there any way I could use on of these?

Thanks,
Ryland

 

No....thats a big car, your gonna need big stopping power...there's a few things you just dont even consider taking the shortcut...brakes are one...steering is the other.

 

Brake lesson 1.

the proportioning valve is designed to decrease pressure, not increase. and this is used in applications for rear drum front disc. Because Disc takes more fluid pressure than drum, you reduce the rear line pressure so the drums dont lock up.

2.
I see where your coming from with the varying pressures and thats awesome youre considering physics and applying engineering to your ride. However the difference from the smaller piston to the larger pistonwith a drum brake set up is hardly noticeable. I had my 69 corvette master cylinder in my 57 and it stopped fine with drums. And now I have front discs in my 57 with the same master and it stops even better with a little more effort because the disc calipers have a significantly larger piston than the wheel cylinders do. obviously This is why they invented power DISC with reduced power to the DRUM. If your this concerned with stopping power, my suggestion is you simply up grade to disc brakes (though expensive, its worth it). But like its been said above these early drum setups worked fine the way they are. I mean it stopped them back then right?




keep on wrenching

 

I dont think you quite under stand my predicament, I cant use a 1" bore master cylinder. My car originally had a 17/32" (0.53125") bore master. Your 57 chevy originally had a 1" bore master just like a corvette. I wouldn't be worried about using a master that is slightly a different size but using a master with twice the bore would not work. Twice the bore size give me roughly a 1/4 of the pressure in my break system which would not work very well if at all.

I have considered swapping to disk breaks all around but to do so I would have to swap rear ends and drive lines which is a ton of work and money.

I also know what a proportioning valve is used for I just wasn't sure how else to phrase it so people would understand what I was talking about.

Ryland

 

This company claims to have brackets to fit disk brakes to '46-'72 Buick rear ends:

https://dfbrakes.com/

see the item at the bottom of this page:

https://dfbrakes.com/products.asp?id=42

They can also help you with a master cyclinder that works with non-power four wheel disk brakes. I think they also sell brackets for the front or you can get them from www.scarebird.com

 

Just seemed like you needed some clarifying

and I understand you just fine with the difference in the piston dia. change as I also stated. And youre right youll be getting about 1/4-1/3 the braking power in which case say it would have taken 10 lbs of pressure on the pedal to slow your car, now it will take about 35 lbs. Welcome to hot rodding.

Now I also dont know what diameter your wheel cylinder pistons are but I doubt they are significantly larger (which they would have to be) than my 57's which if so proves that an up graded 1" piston master cylinder is in fact manageable seeing how I drove my car under these circumstances for a few months.


My point was that it seems that If you cant find your buick rebuild kit for your factory setup And if youre going to update your master cylinder then update it to a dual resevoir

Also you dont have to go disc all the way around? whats wrong with disc up front drum in the rear? like i brushed on before. especially for right now, you could always upgrade the rear later on.

Im sorry if i sounded like a jerk in my previous post, It's your car and you do it the way you want just like everyone on here has. I'm just trying to share my opinion and outlook based on my experiences.


hope it works out and maybe you already have these websites but i figured id toss them your way anyways in hope to help your search



www.BUICK-PARTS.COM

http://www.kanter.com/

-Nick-

 

Thanks Nick, I've actually ordered parts of buick-parts.com (still haven't arrived yet...) and talked to the people at Kanter and will probably send my master to them to get re-built.

Buford26: Thanks for the link, I was already looking at the Scarebird front conversion but hadn't been able to find a rear conversion. From one I can tell Direct Fit Breaks has jumped ship, they don't answer emails or their phones from me and I read reviews saying people have not received orders or refunds from them either.

Thanks,
Ryland

 

thats great how much for the rebuild?

 

I believe they said $200. Pretty steep but still considering it, cheaper than White Post who wanted $350.

Ryland

 

I wouldnt mess with the rear brakes if you do discs in the front shell be alright. and did i miss something? I rebuilt mine, its easy and I am certain you can find the rebuild kits from kanter and from classicbuicks.com.

 

Stutz: I would like to re-build my original break system but no one makes a re-build kit for my master cylinder and getting a NOS one is like $600. I wanted to swap it completely to discs but no ones offers a rear kit for it. I have already purchased a kit to re-do all 4 drums, now I just need to figure out what to do for my master cylinder.

Anyone know of a more common car that also has a smaller bore master cylinder, say 1/2"?


Ryland

 

As a last resort, this place says they can make a custom kit for your rear end if you send them your backing plates:

http://www.braketechsolutions.com/custom_disc_brake_kits?b=1

Might be expensive though. One question about the kits for the front is if it eliminates the original hub, which is large in diameter and often makes fitting aftermarket wheels difficult.

 

Kanter does
http://www.kanter.com///eCatalog/00008.htm

 

Kanter does what? They offer parts for the drums (springs, wheel cylinder, pads, ect.) but not for my master cylinder. Their re-build kit is only good for power brakes, I have manual. They can re-build it for me but don't have a kit.

Ryland

 

Apple Hydraulics, From their website they say they can completely rebuild the 56 master for $575 http://www.applehydraulics.com/brakes.htm
Bummer about the 56' it's a one year only.

 

Thanks, Kanter ($200) and White Post ($350) will also do it and for less. But its nice to know all available options.

Thanks,
Ryland

 

For sheet metal try "The Steel Yard" out on N.E. Columbia blvd. I'm sure there are other places too. They have a website.

 

Just speculation. If your Buick has an under floor master cylinder, Get a firewall mount pedal box and master cylinder. The leverage of the pedal makes up for the larger cylinder bore.

 

Did anyone answer your question about gear selection? I don't know how old this thread is.

 

willys1950jeepster:

It is mounted on the firewall and yes, my gear selection questions have been answered.

Thanks,
Ryland

 

the master IS mounted on the firewall, but it is a through-the-floor type pedal. I think the prevoious poster really was trying to indicate that by installing a hanging type pedal, you get different leverage, so even though you use a larger bore, it may not feel like you have to exert extra pressure, because your pedal is giving you leverage multiplying your force.

 

So i am guessing you called classicbuicks.com and they didnt have one. because mine rebuild kit was only like 35 bucks from them. why not take your master cylinder and go find a junk yard and scout out some other ones to see if you get any other models to match up.