Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

As an east coaster on one of my frequent trips to San Diego, it was a MUST to make a 3 hour or so drive up to Ascot to take in one of their famed sprint car shows.

This was after he retired of course, but quite by accident I sat with Dean Thompson in the stands. Part of our conversation was about his rides in the Raceweld (Mataka Brothers) champ car (Silver Crown) that was out of New Jersey. Thompson first spoke of them as "real nice people" and later revealed that he was related to them through marriage.

Also talking to dedicated sprint car fans sitting near us, I quickly found out that they looked upon our Williams Grove track here in the east (Pennsylvania) in the same way we in the east though about Ascot .. almost sacredly (so to speak).

One thing I (and others before me) did not find at Ascot, was a concession booth where photos were on sale. Lots of food stands (some unusual to us from the east), but no photos?

Although it should have been expected, we also kind of marveled at the two palm tree's in the infield.

Reflecting back at the Mataka Brothers for a minute, Jack Duffy .. a former midget driver with the ARDC (American Racing Drivers Club) .. and myself stooged for them at a Lindy Vicari promoted split Silver Crown, modified stock car show on the the mile + Nazereth (PA) dirt. It was 104 degrees in the shade .. Jimmy Horton was doing the wheel twisting. He handily took home the checkered flag that day for (to the best of my knowledge) the Mataka Brothers only Silver Crown win.

The Mataka Brothers (Raceweld) were the car owners (midget) when .. on his way up .. a young Mario Andretti won THREE ARDC features in one day.

A quick note .. no longer a youngster by any means, I'm told that Jack Duffy is still competeing in TQ's in Florida.

 

Not vintage Sprint or Indy car BUT related you will see what I mean when you look at this


I gotta buy a powerball ticket today!!

http://www.goodingco.com/auction/index.php?page=product&pid=128

 

My apologies if this has been posted already. From a "Circle Track Magazine" article, July 1987. this was the center spread, for the Joe Scalzo article about this car. Ahhhh, Ascot....sure miss it.

 

I'll buy $20 worth tonight .........hows the frame coming along

 

I know this is a little off subject, but the search for my midget history began here, and with the help of many of you we have the history.

Don Edmunds and I have researched my midget back to it's build in, 1965, for Bob Lithgow, Steator, IL. Lithgow passed away five years ago, but Don spoke with Mrs. Lithgow, as well as Dee Tattersall, and obtained all the info, including a stack of photographs. Mrs. Lithgow remembers driving to CA to pick up the car. All of this matches the history given to us by King Kramer who raced the car in the mid-seventies. Lithgow - Schooley - Kenyon (bought and sold) - Kramer - Rockey. Rockey was the last owner/driver. Three more owners after Rockey and prior to my purchase, but never raced. We have spoken with all of them. Very cool process.

Bob Tattersall drove the Lithgow Offy on occasion and we have a USAC certification of Tattersall setting an eight-lap heat race record (1968) at Joliet, Ill in the Lithgow Offy. You may notice the Kurtis style nerf bars. Lithgow owned a Kurtis prior to this Edmunds and we feel he utilized the Kurtis nerf bars to clear the existing Offy header. There have been subtle changes over the years, maybe Offy to Chevy II isn't so subtle, but other than that only minor changes.

Attached are current and 1966 images.

Thanks again for all of the help

Blacki-Suede

 

Baldtireman. I found a couple of program shots of the Coulter Chevy Stapp chassis that Bob East drove.

 

mrut29: Thanks for the pics. The car looks a lot like the car that Gurney (Chuck)drove on the USAC trail in the early 1970's. John S.

 

jerry day renton WA ph4254835218 cell4253068283

 

jerry day renton WA ph 4252285676 cell 4253068283

 

2 Entry forms for sprint races at Williams Grove and Reading in 1950. Check the purse difference for both.

 

That is the same car. Coulter took it back to run USAC in 77-78.

 

Thanks for that, very interesting!

The difference in purse is cosmetic, though. Both events paid the minimum $1,500, and while Sam Nunis made additional appearance deals, Richwine chose to make the entrants "work" for their surplus money!

 

The first and second pics dont work.

 

This is "a bit" complicated, and I'm not sure I have it sussed all right, but the original Ira Vail Miller '122' was sold over the 1924/25 winter to H. D. Carpenter of Philadelphia, as you know. A year later, another Philadelphian by the name of Ed Yagle bought the car, initially for Zeke Meyer it seems, and then for Ray Keech to drive from mid 1926. In 1928, Yagle bought a Miller '91' from Frank Lockhart's widow for Keech, and the "old" '122' was driven by the likes of Frank Farmer, Jimmy Gleason and Larry Beals, it seems.

For the Indianapolis "junk formula" of 1930, Yagle built a two-man car with the engine of the former Lockhart mount, using a widened Miller frame - my money is on the ex-Vail car as a donor here! Unfortunately, this car disappears from my radar following the 1931 season. The '91' was campaigned for a few years more, initially with a Miller engine (probably from the ex-Vail car, again), then a Hisso - last note I have for this car is from 1934.

Apparently, Vail replaced the '122' with the somewhat strange looking two-seater (or, offset single seater if you will) that you posted a picture of several months back. It appears to have had a Miller '183' engine and frame, but little else of Miller hardware, and one gathers that he had had enough of the board tracks, and was going to concentrate on the dirt tracks for the rest of his long career - thus the apparently illogical "step down" in equipment! A driver named Charles Ganung (or, possibly, Genung) took over as a team mate on Vail's old Duesenberg.

In 1926, Frank Lockhart won the Indy 500 on a Miller '91' loaned by a wealthy journeyman driver, which set off some wheelings and dealings that saw Lockhart take over the Indy winner, and offload his Miller '122/183' hybrid on Ira Vail, it seems (pictures are needed to confirm). That car may have started life as the Antoine Mourre Miller '122' in 1924, but that is only speculation at the moment. From now (mid 1926) on, Vail campaigned two Millers, the ex-Lockhart '122/183' for himself, and the 1925 "two-man car" for Ganung, and possibly later for Russ Snowberger, Herman Schurch, Freddie Winnai and Deacon Litz also.

In mid 1932, Milt Marion from New York begins to appear in my records with a Miller I have seen described as both "ex-Lockhart" and "ex-Vail". Two years later, he also had a "new" two-man Miller for Indianapolis, but even though the evidence is far from clear, it seems that he did use the Indy Car only very sparingly, so that it's possible that he had only one engine for the two cars. As for the origins of the two-man car, it is not entirely unthinkable that we're looking at the 1930 Yagle Indy Car again, i.e. possibly the original Ira Vail Miller!

The spanner in the works is a note I have from a 1950 article, that mentioned how Marion got his single seater from Ralph Malamud, another New Yorker! Malamud was well known for campaigning a white #29 sprinter, initially with a DO Hal engine, and later with Gus Schrader's original Miller engine via Bob Sall. That car I have seen described as a former Al Gordon mount, a claim I really cannot make any sense of at the moment! Anyway, Malamud's sprinter has a well documented history that stretches from 1938 to 1953, minimum, so it's not the car in question here, and it also doesn't resemble the Marion/Miller one bit.

But back in 1928, Malamud appeared in some dirt track events with a "new" Miller, and continued to enter the car sparingly over the next five years or so, including at the 1929 Indy 500! Sam Greco of Scranton (PA) drove the car on that occasion, much too slow to qualify for a start, but one must'nt forget that back then the 91 CID formula was still in place at Indy - if his car was indeed the Lockhart/Vail '122/183', and that's at least not completely out of question, it would have needed a different engine for that one event at the very least, since it is not possible to convert a '183' to 91 cubic inches.

Also, there's some conflict with the Vail history of the ex-Lockhart car, since Malamud had this car in September of 1928 already, at a time when Vail still entered two Millers at various events. Interestingly, though, either Malamud or one of the Vail cars failed to appear at any of the meetings in the time frame in question, and a possible later reference to Vail's car as "Lockhart-Miller" may be, in fact, connected to the engine only!

Does this help?

 

Some more stuff from Ascot Park

Chuck Gurney in the 4N
Not sure whose in the second 4
Pretty sure it's Buster Venard in the last 4

 

Sorry it's working for me, I can't seem to replicate the problem.

 

Great information Mr. Ferner. It's amazing how the older cars were tossed around from owner to owner.

Thanks.

 

Hey fella's... I did a COMPLETE build post on the Ellison #49 with pics.

Check it out here:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439534


Thanks,

J Shaw

 

Hey Josh, Thanks for sharing them with us, Awesome job!

 

Michael, THANK YOU! That is the most history I read to date on the Ira Vail MILLER. I'll go through your post and add and maybe question some points. The Vail Miller is the same car that ran INDY in 1924 and 1925. Years ago I spoke with the man who repainted it light blue in Stamford, Ct. the winter home of Ira Vail. I have the bill of sale to H.D.Carpenter and the related paperwork from campaining the car in the 1925 season. At one time Philadelphia must have had as many MILLERS are did LA. This MILLER photo is from the Larry Beals collection, I bought it from a dealer 30-35 years ago, along with one with Hele Nice in the car at Woodbridge, N.J. For some reason Larry is about the only guy NOT mentioned in "The Bugatti Queen". The Vail Duesenberg and 183 MILLER were both owned in later years by Dodge dealer George Taytor in South Salem, N.Y. about 5 minutes down the road from me. So far I haven't found one clue as to there wereabouts. Thanks again for a GREAT post!

 

The MILLER with Hele Nice and Larry Beals at Woodbridge, N.J.

 

Thats Bob East in the Ed & Sheryle Ulyate #4

 

And Ed Ulyate was the "3 Day Blinds" guy, wasn't he? Chuck Gurney ran for him, too. 'Now, the picture that mrut posted of the 4N car; could that possibly be Johnny Anderson in the car? It just didn't look like Chuck and looks more like Anderson. You guys have previously mentioned two of the most amazing Steve Stapp cars that ever made it out here to the west coast. In early 1975, Don Snow of Snow's Speed Shop in Northern California, took delivery of a new Steve Stapp and a new Charlie Lloyd car. The Stapp car saw very limited service until Gurney drove it at the '76 Western World and then, never having even sat in the car, the great GP, Gary Patterson got in it and won one of the November Thunder & Lightning Divivsion USAC sprint car races at Ascot Park. 'Finishing the race driving with one hand on the wheel and the other holding the car in gear. Gurney got back in it and won the '77 Copper World at PIR and then Anderson won another race on the mile at Phoenix with the same car. As for that Bob Coulter Steve Stapp car, that was the car that earned Bob East his nick-name of "Flash" East; with his incredible streaks of fast times. Gurney also won a Copper World event in that car. 'Correct me if I'm wrong?

 

where in california was that car,you dont see to many around.

 

Which Faas are you???

 

A QUESTION

This is for the folks that have street legal sprints &/or champ cars .. what kind of (not locked) rear ends do you use??

THANKS

 

FYI -- Ralph Malamud's daughter (Fran) lives in the New York City borough of Queens.

I know she gave a lot of her Dad's things to Marty Himes for his auto racing museum here in Long Island, NY.

 

For those in the Indianapolis area.....


Friends of Crocky Wright have arranged a Memorial Gathering this coming Friday, January 29, 2010. We'll meet at the Union Jacks Pub in Speedway...5-7pm. See you there!<O</O


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HG

 

Ascot Park where the 405, 91 and the 11 freeways collide.

The only one I know for sure is Walt Kennedy in the 4 car.

 

The pic of the late Walt Kennedy is at El Centro. That looks like Lee James in the 5 although I don't remember him running #5 it usually was #15. Not sure who's in the Tamale Wagon, maybe Heywood? Thanks for posting these.