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kind of off topic but need career advice

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lostforawhile, Jan 22, 2010.

  1. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,817

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    I'm thinking about being an undertaker. Everybody dies.
     
  2. hotrod40coupe
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 2,561

    hotrod40coupe
    Member

    I spent a lot of years in the computer business and it used to be very lucrative. Then everybody found out that it isn't magic and began to outsource the jobs. So if you want to go into the computer business you better move to New Delhi. Bottom line is the computer business doesn't pay what it used to, you are lucky to get minimum wage. I say, go with HVAC, you will always have plenty of work and if it gets slow where you are, come to Vegas, EVERYBODY has A/C here.
     
  3. flamed34
    Joined: Dec 30, 2009
    Posts: 819

    flamed34
    Member

    Lost...
    Yep, it's basically the same thing. PLC's use ladder logic to control inputs and outputs...a PLC is nothing more than a solid state version of relay control.

    Ladder logic, if not familiar with the term...think of it as rungs on a ladder. The program follows down the rungs and looks for inputs to be in required states...switch made, time delay complete, count cycle complete, etc...and then has an associated output at the end of the rung. The program then proceeds to the next rung. It uses typical AND, IF, OR, NOT sequencing...."if switch A is closed AND switch B is open..."

    A person with aptitude for hard wiring and relay logic can excel with PLCs.
     
  4. carcrazyjohn
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 4,843

    carcrazyjohn
    Member
    from trevose pa

    Medical feild has no layoff's and probably great benefits ,Ultrasound technician .Im sure there are other medical feilds that don't require alot of training .The trades are not good yet .Slow .Im hanging in there thats all i know.Post office is another great job with benefits .
     
  5. I would do the HVAC field over the computer stuff - if you have any kind of common sense (which you have because of your old job no doubt), the HVAC industry is for you. Hell, it's a hands-on kind of industry and you are a hands-on kind of guy. I would still become familiar w/PCs as they have programs out there that rate, design, check flow, ductwork, and all kinds of things regarding these systems. Hell, it can only help you.

    I know a young fellow who came here from Russia about 8-9 years ago, knew no English, or about anthing mechanical. Worked real hard on his English (he became an American citizen BTW 6 years ago), got into an HVAC company as a helper and worked his way up. He didn't make much at the start but he now owns his own company (for about 5 years now) and has about 12 people working for him and he is hiring more. He's also now a pretty good computer wiz with the HVAC programs he needs, his fiance runs the paperwork for the business and his future b-in-law is his right hand man who, at first he also knew nothing, now owns his own home at 21 years old.

    If these two stories aren't enough of a motivation, here's one more: solar and wind energy, hot water systems, geothermal systems, etc, are all rapidly on the rise and work in conjunction with HVAC systems - go for the HVAC field specializing in these areas as well and you will be in one of the fastest growing job markets around.

    One final thing - I'm a computer guy telling you to do this, having been in the computer field for 32 years. There's a glut of people right now in this field as has been said - it's not worth your time or money.

    Good luck to you ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  6. flamed34
    Joined: Dec 30, 2009
    Posts: 819

    flamed34
    Member

    BTW...the same technology in engine plants, assembly lines, medical manufacturing, drug manufacturing, public utilities, etc.

    A recent article stated:
    Automation is the trend for ultra-rapid growth to become an indispensable part of modern society has also become a fast track service for manufacturers of the key global markets. , Senior analyst at ARC Advisory Group imanshu Shah, said: "It is clear that in an increasingly competitive global manufacturing environment, manufacturers to increase production and profitability, we must rely on automation technology."
     
  7. hotrodfrank
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 98

    hotrodfrank
    Member
    from dearing,ga

    i think you already made a choice, i don't matter which way you go it will not be easy, just keep your focus
     
  8. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,187

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    I'd go HVAC. Too many computer techs out there already, at least in Tucson. Lots of folks afraid to work hard and get their hands dirty out there.
    You'll do fine.
     
  9. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    Yea I know all about ladder logic, I was messing with basic logic circuits on those radio shack electronic experimenter kits way back in the late seventies early eighties. I could give this a try and it would probably also help me if I decide to take Ac since systems use logic and a lot more controls then they used to. It's a tough decision, it looks like in both fields i would still be working with electronics and motor controls. I think i'll not worry about the computers , I would go stir crazy sitting at a desk.
     
  10. robt500
    Joined: Nov 6, 2006
    Posts: 432

    robt500
    Member
    from Lex, KY

    I wasn't familiar with Dave Ramsey until my older brother gave me a book called The Total Money Makeover. Hands down the best gift I've ever been given, only wish I had been clued in to the solid advice contained therein years ago.
     
  11. KJSR
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,494

    KJSR
    Member
    from Utah
    1. Utah HAMBers

    I may have missed it but what did you do in the aircraft industry?
     
  12. scofflaw
    Joined: Jul 26, 2006
    Posts: 123

    scofflaw
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Ohio

    When searching for a new career, in this case HVAC work, ask yourself these questions:

    1. Can someone overseas do it cheaper?
    Not any time soon that I can see. Hard to offshore a communities local AC repair business.

    2. Can a computer do it faster?
    Not until the robots take over (see Terminator)

    3. Am I offering something that people really want?
    Global warming can only help this kind business,:cool: people HATE being hot in the summer and are way too used to AC to ever give it up.

    GO FOR THE HVAC!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  13. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    I built aircraft tailwheels, that means i did all the machining on the parts, assembled them, etc. basically like running a little company within the company, except i could never get the materials i needed and we had a lot of problems with outside vendors, plating, laser cutting etc. the company is an old school rag and tube aircraft manufacturer, other then the avionics and modern welding technologies, they are built exactly the same as in the 40's, sad to see this company sink, It was a really unique opportunity to do this kind of work, and get to work with old machinery like this.
     
  14. snelson57
    Joined: Jun 3, 2008
    Posts: 544

    snelson57
    Member

    I am a degreed mechanical engineer and a licensed master plumber.

    I have always worked in manufacturing and while I am still employed as an engineer, I have plenty of friends and colleauges on the street with no prospects.

    I am concerned enough about the continuing slide in manufacturing that I opened a plumbing company in Oct 2009 in part as a hedge against losing my job. I have a partner in the business full time. Work is tight, but we are making it.

    Like it has been said, they can't move your HVAC service job to China. This is a way better option than computers, IMHO.

    I am glad to have my degree as an ME, but I believe that my MP license will prove to be more valuable to me in the coming decade.
     
  15. FIFTY2
    Joined: Apr 9, 2008
    Posts: 340

    FIFTY2
    Member

    Ive been in the HVAC Business for about 6 years now, I went to work for my in-laws because the previous company that I worked for went under...

    I hadnt done any kind of service industrty work before, buy my father-in-law knew I was mechanical.

    I wound NOT reccomend spending a bunch of money on school, if your mechanically apt (which most hot rodders are) then you will probably learn quickly.

    Most of the companies around here have installers and technicians.

    the installers dont make as much money, but have more stable hours, also dont need nearly as much HVAC knowledge

    Techs usually get their own truck, etc..

    Just make sure you go to work for an HONEST company. Do your homework!! Theres a company locally that hires dozens of hopefull AC techs each summer, makes them pay to go to thier own school (which they take out of your check: about $4000.00) then fires them at the end of the summer.

    The good:

    If your good at it you can make good money, and will always be in demand.
    Customers are always happy to see you
    There will always be a need for you.

    The bad:

    Long hours (especially in the summer around here)
    I work for a small company, so Im always on call (holidays, etc)
    It hard work (120+ deg in an attic in the summer)


    As far as certifications go you need to check with your state.

    In Texas you have to register every year with the state to work on any air conditoiner (25 buck a year)

    Everyone who handles freon must have an EPA cert.

    If you want to open you own company you need your state liscense,
    Its a pain to get, and kinda expensive.


    Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions about The HVAC field.

    Good Luck!!
     
  16. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    this is what we built here, company started in the 40's in Jackson Michigan, then moved here in the 60's. High power to weight ratio stol rag and tube aircraft. basically flying traditional hot rods, really not much design difference other then avionics since BD Maule designed the airplane in the 40's-50's, engines are still basic flat four's or sixes running leaded gas. as simple as you can get. here's a video link http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5713911226977503268#docid=2390379183842490398
     
  17. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    I was been in big construction all my life...good tradesmen are common,really skilled ones that think beyond the box are more uncommon..A smart skilled trademan is never out of work cause he just continues to adapt to new situations and ducks when the shit flies.
     
  18. lowelife
    Joined: Aug 30, 2007
    Posts: 399

    lowelife
    Member

    Seems like the dopeman is never broke... I'm just sayin'.
     
  19. KJSR
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,494

    KJSR
    Member
    from Utah
    1. Utah HAMBers

    Yeah those are basically toys and with a bad economy the toys stop selling. I'm in aviation but in the defence sector. I don't see that going away for quite a while...like afer I'm dead! Do you have an A&P or anything like that?
     
  20. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    no we operate under the companies license since we are a manufacturer , sad to see them go they are far more then toys, they are used all over the world as bush planes, they have a really good reputation, the problem is the recession isn't just here, when things first got bad they were selling overseas still, then that dropped off. very rugged and capable plane. great video here, they can land and take off nearly anywhere, at least I had the chance to be involved in such a famous company for as long as I did. I know everyone here has seen cannonball run, thats a maule m4 that lands in the middle of town, bone stock, a bunch of my former coworkers were extra's in the movie, the guy who i worked next to for the last 10 years painted that plane. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7vuBlplrpk
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It is flooded, and it has had a depressing effect on wages too. Entry level computer techs here are getting the same, or just a little less than a retail cashier. Granted, there might be a path to move up from the tech job, but even that is uncertain.:(
     
  22. spinman
    Joined: May 7, 2009
    Posts: 118

    spinman
    Member
    from new jersey

    My one cousin went into HVAC right after HS in '76. Worked for the Man for a few years then started his own biz. The key was getting some big accounts. My brother in-law was a Domino's regional manager in the '80s, so he hooked up my cousin with all the Domino's in the area. That's big bucks. You have A/C, heat, the walk-in boxes. He had to start hiring other techs to run around and do the work. Then he got the Walgreens in a 3 state area. He almost got too big.

    Now his wounger brother who went the college route saw the bucks his bro was making. He went to night school for like 6 months and learned the basics of HVAC. Being the scammer that he is, he started doing hvac jobs on his lunch break. Sometimes he'd never come back to his 'real' job. Got some big apartment building accounts. Every unit had it own heat and air handler. This went on for a year or 2 til he couldn't run the scam much longer. Finally quit his good govenrment white collar job and went into HVAC full bore. He too enventually built the biz into a 15 technician monster. Finally the 2 brothers joined forces and combined.

    One is 53 and the other 46. Both are millionares. The markup in the biz is unbelievable. You go and get your home a/c and heat chnaged out. That's 4 to 6 grand. the equip. may run 2 grand tops. He pockets 3 grand for ONE DAYS WORK!

    I'd tell any kid who likes to work with his hands to do HVAC. You'll NEVER be out of a job. My cousins can naver find enough skilled techs who aren't drunk, dopers or lazy asses.

    Spin
     
  23. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    I'm going to go down monday and talk to the teacher over industrial electronics and motor controls, Since I have the skills already to do that kind of work and understand all the logic stuff like it's nothing to me, I might as well capitalize on those skills. I mean I took it back in 90-91 and it was all easy for me to understand, I would have gone into the field, but I moved from Ohio to Georgia and went through major life upheavals. I'm still watching the ac stuff too, all the motor control skills go right into the ac field too.
     
  24. rusty76
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 882

    rusty76
    Member
    from Midway NC

    Lost I've been doing HVAC for the last seven years. The good Lord blessed me with a good boss and alot of work. When I started didn't know a thing. Still learning and while it isn't an easy job it does have its' perks. My suggestion is go to school and take some classes. Find an employer who will let you start at the bottom. I don't care who you are or what you made before bt being on the bottom helps you go up. Get used to idea of standing in mud and in the weather no matter what time of the year it is. I work no less than ten hour days five and six days a week. Find a quality shop and people who actually know what they are doing and not some run of the mill duct beaters gang. I do mostly install work and change outs both commercial and residential. Have any guestions about HVAC trade give me a PM and I will give you my thoughts. I will say this there are many days I go home tired and worn. Good days come and go. There are many days where I think "why didn't I go to college?" Then too I like being outdoors also and not being in one spot all the time. Although when it gets hot here in the south it sucks. Whatever you do just be happy with it.
     
  25. flamed34
    Joined: Dec 30, 2009
    Posts: 819

    flamed34
    Member

    The same motor controls are used in the big air handling systems in industrial, commercial, etc...from a factory making widgets to Walmart. I'm not an HVAC expert by any means, but when you get into zoned areas in HVAC the technology opens and closes ductwork, etc....so could be a chance for a double major approach.
     
  26. joedoh
    Joined: May 5, 2007
    Posts: 188

    joedoh
    Member
    from Wichita KS


    good advice! I quit my aircraft job and went back to school 8 years ago as a non traditional adult. I got an electrical engineering bachelors and a masters in business. I applied back at the same company 2 years ago and I make 3 times what I quit the job at.

    dont monkey around, if you slouch through school you will never get a job. Get a worthwhile degree, if anyone can do it chance are that most will and have. Challenge yourself every chance you get, its surprising what you are capable of. I did 9 years of school in 6 years with no drops or retakes, I am pretty humble but I love saying that.
     
  27. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    the weather doesn't bother me, worked in an unheated airplane hanger for the last ten years, icebox in winter, oven in summer. the overhead gas heaters are worthless in a building that big, only good if you stand directly in front of them to warm up. they can run all day and maby raise the temp a couple of degrees in part of the building
     
  28. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    Oh i'll take it serious, i really enjoy doing that kind of stuff, i'm going back for a career not to mess around.
     
  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    College is not everything. Our culture would have you believe it is, and I don't discourage anyone from going, but it is no guarantee.

    I have a fabulous collection of embossed pieces of paper, all hanging in frames, keeping the paint on the wall from fading. Right now, that is ALL that they do.

    Thinking about becoming a lawyer. Never met one who was broke all of the time.
     
  30. Salty
    Joined: Jul 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,259

    Salty
    Member
    from Florida

    Couple things my pop taught me...

    You'll always need public servants which include....

    Funeral techs
    Cops
    Firefighters
    HVAC techs
    and Military blokes

    You need cops, firefighters and military to protect ya, HVAC techs to keep you cool and the ice cream on the table and a funeral guy for everyone.

    Honestly, I started out in the HVAC industry years ago with my pops company (not in it any longer and havent been in some years) One thing I learned....Residential HVAC sucks.

    Industrial is cool....grocery stores, chillers, Ice rinks, meat packing plants, produce distributors, hell even Shwanz frozen food...we were busy as hell all the time. No limit to the amount you could work in the summers, (winters were a bit slower but still busy)....only one I loathed going to was the slaughter house (that place was creepy)

    Got outta it and became a firefighter...got "burned out" on that and went in the military...got sick of being deployed and became a cop....yeah I'm well rounded HOWEVER always had a paycheck in public service....
     

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