Model T accessory water pump on a Model A ??

There was a F.A.S.T. meeting at my work over the weekend and I had an old timer telling me that they used to put the Model T accessory pumps on the side of Model A bangers. He was telling that it would actually pressurize the system. I cannot see how this is possible since I have always been under the impression that the pressure is the result of the water being heated, not the pump since it only pushes volume through a closed system. I can, however, imagine an advantage in pushing the water through the motor rather than pulling it.
Has anybody done this before? Any thoughts? Did you run both pumps or just one?
Thanks!
-drZ

 

I don't care what sort of pump is used---unless you're running a pressurized radiator cap, there will be no pressure. A 0 pound cap (like As came with) will simply allow any pressure to spew out of the overflow tube, or out around the cap itself.

 

and a higher pressure rating of the cap raises the boiling point of the system

 

Thats nonsense. I hope for his sake he wasnt always that stupid and recently went senile.

 

For the record you can't pull liquids. Try sometime. It's always a push, even if the push is at the opposite end of the loop.

It may seem like nitpicking, but when you really start to look/think about how liquid flows it's an extremely important concept.

 

Ever drink out of a straw?

This should be labeled the ANTI-TECH thread.

 

hey, hey. easy on the guy. i understand pressurized systems and how the radiator cap works, etc. this guy has been building A speedsters for years and although i don't agree with everything he says, he still has a great deal of information to offer.

shifty, i see what you're saying with it being a closed system and how it doesn't matter which end the pump is on. could you see an advantage to putting the pump on the inlet side of the engine rather than the outlet?

 

Straw 101- Atmospheric pressure pushes liquid up the tube when you create a low pressure area at the top. You don't pull. You allow the push to happen. Liquids can't be pulled.

Back on topic, dunno if pump location would mean anything, you'd need a hydraulic experter type guy for that. Just wanted to point out a common misperception people have about moving water. It's subtle but fundamental to understanding cooling systems.

 

I think that this discussion hinges hevily on terminology...

the low pressure area is created at both the top AND the bottom of the straw. Since fluid will not expand, the lowered pressure tends to displace fluid to the top of the straw, the resulting empty space must be filled, so in my way of thinking fluid can be drawn, but certainly fluid is moved more efficiently under pressure.

Might be I am wrong in the specifics of the theory and terminology, but as a mater of practicality....

Stock Model Ts had no water pump right?

So if we apply thermo-siphon flow dynamics this push/pull discussion becomes even more convoluted.

 

i see what shifty is saying. same thing with the intake on your engine. it is not the movement of the pistons pulling are into the engine, it's the atmospheric pressure pushing air into the low pressure areas. same idea with venturies.
no, model T's did not have water pumps stock, but they were offered as an aftermarket accessory by multiple companies.
i have no clue what thermo-siphon flow dynamics are, so i won't even comment on that.
when the old man commented on the "pressurized" system, i think he was referring to the fact that although it is a closed system, it still has some air in it with a non-pressurized cap. one could infer (and i'm not stating this as fact) but the pressure of the water (in reference to flow and movement) would be stronger the closer you are to the outlet of the pump. therefore, if you pump the water directly into the engine rather than through the radiator and then through the engine, the "pressure" would be higher in the engine. i don't know if it makes sense, but i think that the old man was referring to speed and flow as pressure.

 

Just restrict the A water outlet (where the water goes up to the radiator) with a 1/2, 9/16 or 5/8 dia hole, use the T aftermarket water pump and you have a modern type cooling system. The radiator cap is for steam pressure- think about it "Sunnyupside". By the way; NASCAR has been doing it this way for years!

 

that's the best answer/ solution i have heard! thanks!

 

Pick your poison
http://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/Collections/SpeedEquip/WaterPumps/WaterPumpsThumbs000.shtml