So what is the best most proper way to do it? I do care about suspension tuning! Would you go with the 1/2 of a 4-bar set-up? If so, you would have to use a tube axle right? Something like this.....(The Fidgiters design)
Cosmo....whoops I saw in your last post that 4-bar is better. What is the best way to use a I-beam? I might be asking redundant questions, I know.
I would use the 'I' beam with the spring, sans shackles (mounted with ears to the axle, through the web looks nice), and long locaters, one per side. Long meaning 3/4 back to the firewall, and mounted as far apart on the axle as possible. The springs can be mounted as above, to be hidden by the rad shell, if you like. That was nice. If you're using two inch springs, 3 leaves per side sounds like a good start for the average 'T'. Main, just about as long, and 3/4. You want decent movement for a good ride. Do make sure the axle is free to move, and this will require good shocks. But it will ride nice.
I think the solidly bolted rods are being asked to do too much vis a vis the braking loads. You are effectively trying to bend them, at the end, with a very large pipe wrench. And I think you will bend them. If you were to float them at the axle, and mount the springs in your 'U' brackets (simply where the shackles now mount), the load would then be in line with the rods, and the braking loads would then be along the length of the rods, in which case they appear quite adequate. As for the bridge across the shackles: I would use something like 3/16 plate cut like a butterfly, then welded to the shackle. The bolt was just to keep them from separating, as a safety feature in case the spring bolt loosened. You want them to remain parallel at all time. And, yes, I just told you not to use shackles at all. but if you were... Cosmo
I build them . Simple easy and misunderstood. First if you are gonna ask question ask someone who has one or has built them. Other wise you will get confuused. There are pics on my website below of step by step build with 1/4 both the SrDagster and the Heep for instance have them. The new rail also has them but that build is just started. Typically Spring is also the bottom link. Axle carries a bracket the spring eye bolt goes into That locates the axle both height wise , wheelbase wise and side stabilty wise. The upper links provides Caster adjustment or determines caster settting. Set up is very simple very stable and works so well you will actually wonder why it isnt always used. PM me if you need any questions answered. It is my favourite. Here there are step by step pics of the front axle build http://seniordragster.bravehost.com/HEEP.html The upper links on this are short because it is a comp vehcile. The could be stretched out to even 30 to 36 inches and mounted outside the frame rails for a more traditional look.
i will be building a rodster with the same system, back in the 80's someone came to our oval track in augusta with them on a 55 chev., nascar banned the car
Nothing really wrong with them IF the shackles are strong enough. I'm personally not in love with the single bolt perch through the axle beam, as there is the potential for it to twist...but i'll bet it works fine. Keep in mind that we are talking about a skinny tire, light weight hot rod that will not generate a lot of cornering force. Cosmo is absolutely correct about the 4 bar and axle loadings, but the 1/4 elliptic setup does not load the hairpins any differently than a traditional suicide buggy spring. It's not the "best" design regardless of what type of spring you use... BTW, I can't remember if I used the front or rear springs on the front... I've got a similar setup on the rear, so they all got used SOMEWHERE.
This is the way I did mine, I know it's a tube axle but it works great. A friend had restored a 57 Chevy and then added a continental kit so took the new rear leafs off and gave them to me. Front half is shorter and stiffer so I used that half on the front ,rear was longer and lighter and used on the rear, Drilled holes thru the leafs and bolted with grade 8 bolts to the bottom of frame with inside reinforcement. best of luck.
TTT........ Any other thoughts about these set-ups? The I-beam/hairpins and the single bolt perch....
Thanks, I feel better already!. I am glad to see another not hampered by convention. Congrats on all. Don
Just drilled a hole in the axle (as has already been mentioned) and bolted up a Model T spring perch (think that's been mentioned too). Spring itself was a cut-off trailer item. Now let's see if I can do the picture thingie....
Hey lakesmod, Cool setup. Looks to me like it would let the axle move front to back with the spring motion, which is ok in the back, but do you think it could impact bump steer? i guess it depends on how your steering is set up. Also, unless you have a heavy motor, I bet the front will be very stiff, I have half the springs you have. I like it. Rick.
this altered had a slick set up with a split wishbone. pic is about 35 years old. im looking for this car. would like to buy back if its still around. notice the friction shocks mounted to the round tubing. this is the best pic i have of the front end.
heres a couple pics of a stock setup, i have no idea what it is off of, it was just laying out in a pile at the shop i rent.
Went to the shop and took some close-ups of two I have done. First is an altered. Second is my rail and has a single quarter elip. (The nylon strap is for my tow strap and since it doesnt interfere with anything I leave it there. ) Don
lakesmod,, When a leaf spring flexes, it lengthens. If there's one spring, like Dolmetsch 's it'll want to rotate the axle. if there are 2 springs like yours, it'll want to move it front to back. If you use 4 links to locate it, & the spring with no shackles, it'll bind because the spring has no room to move. At least that's the way I understand it. I could be wrong. I'm not a steering geometry expert. <script type="text/javascript">vbmenu_register("postmenu_4777055", true); </script>
My first try at 1/4 E's was the picture that Cruzincougar posted on page #1. I did the same on the rear. I took the idea of the 2 -1/4 E's from the Miller car that Exwestracer posted on page #2. My thinking is that I can add or take off as needed to "tune" the front & rear. Fred
Yeah - notice that the axle is located solely by the spring - no competing arcs of (non)movement.... .
While it is true the axle rotates a bit it isnt significant. The car goes a straight as an arrow and steers like a passsenger car. All axles rotate a bit on bounce anyway,. Even with hairpins they are stiill making an arc. Even with parallel leaves. By positioning the upper link on a 1/4 elip set up it wold be possible to almost completely eliminate the roll if i one so desired. However since it is not determental (it is after all only caster and we usually have lots anyway in straight or solid axle front suspensions) it is a mott point. since it gives no determental affects and does not affect steering from the seat. From a practical standpoint I get the same coment everytime i run it from fellow racers. "Man does that thing ever run straight.!" From watching it it appears not to vary even 1/8 of an inch the whole run from straight. It runs like it was on rails. What more can i say? The second car the altered is a bit difffernet as springs and links are very similar in length or the same in average length. THe third car now being made will havea bit different set up again although will run 1/4s it will look though like an old school FED frontend from a few feet away. Don
Take a look at Barry Lobeck's Orange Deuce B400 he built back in the nineties , lower hidden 1/4 elliptics under the rails to locate the axle and the use of a single radius rod on top of the axle back to the chassis to take the braking forces . He and the current owner said it was a fantastic set up and rode and handled extremely well . I think it was that car that went cross country , and also I think I read somewhere that someone said that the front end of that car has never been touched since it was built . I'm doing something similar on a chassis I have in the near future Cheers Steve in Oz
Here's how I attached my 1/4's to a Superbell I-beam...the threaded end goes thru a sleeve then thru the web of the axle
I'm doing something similar on a chassis I have in the near future Cheers Steve in Oz[/QUOTE] I've always wondered how to store stuff in the near future. Sure would save a lot of space...
..........I've always wondered how to store stuff in the near future. Sure would save a lot of space... Hahahahaha........are we all gunna live long enough..... so many projects , so little time...... I'm thinking of doing a Lobeck style of 1/4 elliptics on my Blown Hemi A Highboy Pick up , I'm building at the moment cheers Steve in Oz
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