I'd say to follow this^ advice, it's the same way I do it, and it's always worked well for me. Yes, watch any of those Chip Foose shows and all the rest on TV, and you'll see it's standard practice.
My two cents. Body filler should be used only in low spots in the compound curve of the body, not one bit more. The compound curve that runs from the front to the back of the entire side of the car. This is why you look down the side of most customs and see three separate compound courves in quarter, door, and front fender.
Tiger hair--Kitty hair--Gorilla hair--Long n strong Trade names for body filler with longer strands of fiberglass mixed in. Duraglass--Marglass--Dynaglass Trade names for body filler with milled fiberglass, sometimes called short strand. All these products contain polyester (fiberglass) resin the same as regular bondo/body filler. I'm not a real big fan of using these for a foundation fill, especially the longer strand products. The longer strand fillers make it easier to have voids and bubbles of air in that particular layer. This leaves a greater chance of shrinkage or bubbling later on--usually after a paint job. Also the thicker strand fillers are more difficult to get the hardner more evenly distributed in the mix which can cause the same shrinkage and bubbling later on. Todays formulas of Polyester (fiberglass) resin have excellent adhesion to clean and sanded (24 to 60 grit) bare metal. The metal must also be warm (NOT HOT) in order for the resin/body filler to cure properly. And if you are starting to use the magic dent erasing compound called "BONDO"--take some time to read this tech post: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8318&highlight=bondo+101&showall=1 and the Evercoat FAQs: http://evercoat.com/faq.aspx overspray
The only thing I would question on oversprays suggetion is the grit of sand paper he is recommending. Most fillers companies are no longer recommending using such heavy grit papers for initial sanding as they often lead to other problems down the road such as sand scratch swelling and pinholes caused by air being trapped in the deep sand scatches if you don't get your filler completely worked into those large scratches. Evercoat is now reccomending 80 grit as their SOP under threir products to help solve these problem.
Good point. You are right. But when you grind bare steel with any specific grit--24 to 80-the steel does not show exactly the depth of scratch marks from the grit used, because of the hardness of the steel. I would also bet that the 80 grit SOP is for filler on filler or filler on fiberglass. Also good techniques on spreading filler include pressing the initial spread of material firmly onto the surface, then continuing across the area, smoothing with the spreader, to eliminate as much of the trapped air pockets and bubbles as possible. The smoother fillers like "Rage" really help to accomplish a smoothe air free layer, also. This is also the reason for NOT working too large of an area or areas at one time, so you can get the best results from the product with out the cure/hardening time getting ahead of you. overspray
No we are now recommending 80 grit on the steel as well but you are correct it will definitely show more in other layers of filler. Also a good point about applying your first pass of filler it should be spread so thin that it is almost just resin to ensure it gets into the sand scatches and gives you good adhesion. The other thing Evercoat now has is their Quatum products that allow you to control the work times with different catalysts so you can work larger areas without the fear of product starting to harden as you apply it.
Something that works for me,,is to hit the filler when it first kicks over. Not too soon that it lifts the filler from the metal or gums the paper. If you hit it just right it'll cut fast and the bodywork will go real fast. Instead of letting it get as hard as it does and having fight it. Remember: Only You Can Prevent Bondo Crimes.
Super! http://evercoat.com/productCategory.aspx?cat=47 Sometimes you need to grind that bare metal with the ol' nasty 24 grit to get down to the good clean stuff on these old car bodies. I usually treat that type of agressive scratch like I do with sandblasted steel, by hitting the 24 grit grinder marks or sandblasting texture with some 80# DA to reduce the scratch profile. On new cars the 80# start should be fine.
Very true! They definitely don't take 60 plus years of rust and corrosion into consideration when they are making their suggestion.
depending on how close to done your work is, you can try primer surfacer. its formulated to build up thicker to fill scratches, blend edges, and so on. I like to use it as a final step when I do filler work. I've only seen it in light gray, which I like because I fog a light coat of black lacker rattle can paint to use as a blocking guide coat. Wrap a paint stick tightly with 220 grit and sand till hazed on black is gone. Then prime and paint
You also want to watch your metal temp.....especially this time of year. If it's too cold your filler will peel right off. Ask me how I know.......
Bondo shouldn't be applied all at once and not more than one inch thickness, apply it in 3 layers if you can. You should also work the dent out to at least 1/8 to 1/16 depth FIRST. Also when using a hammer and dolly push the dolly on the back of the dent and tap on top around the dolly, try to avoid hitting the metal on top of the dolly it will stretch it. You will know if you are hitting the dolly by the "tinking" sound. Also last in first out. Like anything it is easier to show you. Don't apply it to paint either it peels, also becareful when mixing the cream harderner, it can be tricky with humidity and cold. Also remember feathering your edges is the key. Smooth them as flat against the metal as possible. Hope that makes sooome sense....
My 2 cents on Kitty Hair. Back in the day (the 70's-80's) we used it when bonding fiberglass fender flairs and spoilers to cars. Also as a first coat on boat or corvette repairs. For this stuff, it worked great. On my recent project I used it on a steering wheel crack repair and I also used it to mould the seams between potmetal fender extensions and the rear quarter panels. These were not good uses for this product. In the heat of the summer the fender seams would become visible, and the steering wheel repair would pop up due to the wheel expanding. I had used JB Weld on the front fender extensions because there was only a thin edge to bear against the fender. This seam remained invisible, regardless of the temperature.
After each sanding session before putting on the next coat of filler BLOW THE SANDING DUST OFF!Failure to do so will cause subsequent adhesion problems. I never use fg fillers. There NOT waterproof.
No. Different resins. Modern fillers are plastic. I don't use fiberglass fillers on anything but fiberglass. Many will argue, but I've seen far to many failures with glass. I have yet to see any advantage.
Verrrrrry well putt! Its best to work it while its still soft. I get the area as straight and level as possible with 36 or 40 grit paper on a long block, while the filler is just settin up. After that just one thin coat over all of it, block down with 80 grit, then 180. Your ready for primer!
Heres my method and its never let me down .I use a hammer and dolly to straighten the area as best i can .I use a product called "ALL METAL" on weld seams (it keeps moisture from getting through a pin hole in the seam if there is one) ,then scuff the metal surface where the filler is to be applied with 40 grit.Once i get the regular filler pretty flat with 40 grit on a long board ,i move on to a product called "PIRANHA PUTTY" which is a glaze puty made by 3M for pinholes and low spots .Its a 2 part putty that dries fast and is easy to work and feather in,and since its a 2 part deal its compatable with epoxy primers .I never apply regular body filler more than once ,but i dont apply any at all until i get the metal within a 1/8 of where it needs to be anyway.I have heard that you can apply regular lite weight filler several times if you sand betwen coats ,but its still gunna shrink and crack over time if its real thick (especially if the car is exposed to the elements) .Once it does that moisture will get underneith it and its surely gunna come off soon.I realise your trying to learn ,and that is commendable .I have made lots of mistakes learning body work over the years and im still learning .This is my method ,but im no expert .Im strickly and amatuer ,but im getting better at it each time i get a car ready for paint ....
This is NOT correct. They are the same resins with different filler material in them. Body fillers use polyester resins just like reinforced fillers like Tiger/Kitty Hair they just use different fill material. Fibre glass strands in reinforced and talc(baby powder is a form of talc) in body fillers. The talc is what absorbs the water just like baby powder absorbs moisture. Reinforced fillers are designed to add strenth when used for bridging holes etc or higher build applications.
This is a very helpful thread. Made me realize that I really need to invest in some good sandpaper and a long block.
Long boards are the key to getting a big area flat.I have two different boards i use .One is wood with an aluminum board and the other is a flexable board.I know an old timer locally that makes his own long boards and sum of them are nearly 3 feet long.When he gets one in paint ,its lazer straight down the sides.I never sand by hand until im doing the final wet sand with 400 grit after i have blocked it wet first.I always use long boards ,blocks ,a piece of rubber hose (for real tight spots) or sometimes a piece of long sand paper like im shinning a shoe in sum odd areas ,but never with just my hand and a piece of sand paper.Technique is the other part of sanding and know when to switch to finer grits...
Damn just got back from the local body shop supplies, rage gold went up in price 52.00 a gallon Can I switch back to 18.00 a gallon dynalite or stay with what I have been useing on my car, rage gold? Well skimmed the whole side below the body line, first coat of slick sand
How much money do you have tied up in your car? The $34.00 of difference between Rage Gold and any cheap filler is really going to be that big a deal. It always kills me how much guys complain about the price of a good quality filler. They sand better, self level better, generally have fewer pinholes (if properly applied), don't tend to clog sand paper as much etc. yet all these advantages don't seem to be worth the fairly insignificant price difference. Look good by the way.
Yea it sands better and less pinholes, but does it hold up the same? I dont have as much as alot of people do in them, I do it all myself But my as$ checks are puckering as I am getting close to finishing it. Money is getting tighter. No high roller here
I hear yah but consider how much more you will spend on sandpaper, product for refilling pinholes (either filler or primer). Is it really that much more expensive? It will probably hold up about the same but also consider how much your time worth to reapply product or sand it for longer if it's not worth $34.00 or less factoring in the above added expenses of using cheap products then......
Yes you can. Just sand (36 grit ) or cheese grate the first layer before adding the next layer. Tiger hair = kitty hair....... Fiber glass strands mixed with resin. showrodfreak
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