I've read through this post again and still can't find the answer to my question, so I'll ask again: What is the reasoning behind wanting to title/register a hot rod in California illegally?? Why is it so important to have a title that reads 1932 (for example) on a car that is built from new components? Is it to avoid smog? Or to increase the value of the car by representing it as something it's not??? I just don't get it.... I understand the need or desire to use a new frame, or a new body (or both) in order to build a nice car. I don't understand the reasoning behind trying to circumvent the law in order to have what amounts to a phony title..
To some, being able to say and prove thier car is titled as a "19 whatever" is not only good for the ego, but will get more money when sold to someone who also has a ego fixation. Whether or not it's worth the risk is up to the individual.
What is there not to get? If you don't have an original bodied car your going to have to smog it. What would you rather put in a Hot Rod, a Flathead V-8, Nailhead, or a 2010 emissions compliant Chevrolet crate motor? Real question is if a car built outside of California will be considered legal or illegal. This law means the end of traditional replica hot rods except for 500 lucky people every year. The reasoning behind those who want to break the law is simple, freedom to do what you want to do to something your creating with your own bare hands.
Republik of Kalifornia indeed! I can not believe the stuff that goes on out there! That has to be the most anti-gun,anti-car, anti anything state in the union!! Iowa might not be the most perfect place in the world, but i wouldn't live anywhere else.
Thank you for posting such a thoughtful, fact-filled, well-conceived rant.... Yes, all 38 million of us are morons to live here...
If someone from Idaho was discussing a problem or a concern with registration issues, doubt that I would weigh in. Why should I butt in when I would probably have no knowledge to share. Yet, everytime some issue comes up about California, everyone immediately makes it their business and they are going to tell us all about it whether we like it or not. And, no, I don't buy the idea that "if it starts in California, then it's coming here..." Weird......
kinda funny, been keping up on this post,mostly courious. cought the news and showed another law just passed and went in affect today in california[ you can nolonger cut the tails off milk cows ] even gov arnold thought this was crazy. quote we are in a financial crissis and all me can worry about is cow tail. mabe the tree huggers might have something to do with alot of issues? i know this was alittle off topic but was coincidental that it was on our news in iowa. and don't take me wrong i do love animals.
i mean no affence to anyone on hamb , i just thought it was something that might lighten up the conversation on this subject. i have been to california and enjoyed my time there. i thought everyone i have met on here is generally a decent person, and it's courious to see how life is different in different parts of the USA.
No sweat, friend....it just gets real old. Real old. I've been here for all of my 59 years, all within a four mile radius. I've had a good career, have a wonderful wife, and live in a really nice town of 11,000 good people. The weather is beautiful and I have never had one problem with the DMV or the police...never. I don't bash on people living in other states. Where you live is your business. I absolutely love it here. I choose to live here. We have our problems, and I'll bet Iowa has it's struggles, too. But, I'm not going to go out of my way to point them out to you. Wherever someone lives, there's going to be some issues. But, we live where we please, or at least I hope everyone does. I could move anywhere in the Country, but we are going to stay here, and that's our choice. I have a lot of my heart invested in California and it is a big part of who I am...always will be. By the way, my grandparents are from Grinnell...
mazooma1 i've lived in the same iowa town my whole life[43 yrs] and have watched the packing plants close, alot of industry leave, and it's generally a decent town. pop in 70's 42,000 now 24,000. and i would love to move away. but i loved the weather and alot of nice people in california, and the smaller towns we were in were realy nice. i think were all having some tough times and don't know how we'll recover. all i can say is hold on it's going to be a rough ride. grinnell, it's a small world. nice chatting.
something about this post has me confused. just what is legal about a '29 ford on a stock boxed frame with a sbc in it? the frame may be legal but, that sbc isn't. sure, if it is titled as a model a, with legal frame numbers, the motor sure as hell isn't original. also, why the beef with 'glass bodies and custom frames with sbc in them. why does that make them any different than a stock frame, steel body model a with a sbc in it? i am looking at this from the dmv point of view. having a stock frame with numbers just means you don't have to do smog. also, when it comes down to safety and possible mishaps, a custom new steel frame is always going to safer. if you know anything about metal fatigue and metallurgy you know what i mean and i don't care how much you box it and cross member it, it still has the potential for cracking from work hardening after all those years. another thought is, after they screw all of us that build new cars who do you think they will go after next? it is only a matter of a computer dump on all cars registered before '61 to find you. so don't think you are legal either, just because you got your car registered as what it looks like. your only legal until they want to get you for not having smog control on your cars. yes, i also know this new crap is all about lost tax money but, with all the tree huggers in this state, it is also about smog exempt status too! this is another reason for me to cut all the street crap off this new t bucket i built and make it an altered race car. no registration, no dmv crap, no insurance hassles, no cops and tickets, just fun times. it will be a lot longer before the fascist in sac get around to outlawing race cars on private property than doing away with custom street cars.
i have question to this. when you buy your car you pay taxes, when you sell it do you have to report it and pay taxes again?
Alright, what are my options? All I have at the present time is an all steel '27 T body and a few parts. Plans call for a new fabricated frame and a turbocharged 1988 Ford 2.3 4 cylinder motor. T's had the VIN on the motor, which is long gone. The only identifying tag I have is this plate riveted to the inside of the firewall..........I don't think it means much. I've got a long way to go before registration but I'd like to get a title for it. All I have is a 'bill of sale' from the last owner, the craiglist ad where I found it and a couple of pictures. Is it gonna be ridiculously difficult to retain a title? Should I approach DMV with my hat in my hand or should I just shoot myself now?
California is obviously making a play to simultaneously capture lost revenue and increase the number of emissions-compliant vehicles on the road. Whether you agree with this or not, it is logical and as someone correctly observed, with today's databases it is more feasible for the powers that be to create hit lists of likely offenders. I don't think that anyone here is trying to say that it is right for owners to have done illegal things. Some people for sure have - Boyd was singled out; I don't know if he participated in chicanery or not - in blatant ways where the intention up front was to defraud. What I find significant are the gray areas. Let's think about the example of cops checking serial numbers at a bike show. Let's say that you were the owner of a Harley, and that you crashed. The frame and the tin are trashed, but the motor and tranny are OK. Let's say that you retain legal title to the motor and tranny - this happens legally every day. You take them to a bike shop and ask them to build you a new bike, using a custom frame you purchase from said bike shop. The bike shop builds you a new bike using that new frame and your old motor and tranny, and charges you, say $30K which is a typical cost for something like this. The bike shop titles your bike - again, legally - as a 2009 Custom. It is not long before all those numbers hit the DMV computer and someone is potentially on the hook. It might be for the owner to again prove that he owned the motor and tranny, or for proof that he is compliant with 2009 bike smog regs. It might be the bike shop because he sold you a 'new' bike that contained 'used' parts. Yes, these things happen every day and in situations like this it might not be about anyone attempting to defraud, but simply because there are so many potential combinations of events that one set of regulations cannot anticipate every possibility. What happens if someone built a 'new' 32 Ford out of repro parts in some other state, where it was titled as a 32 Ford, and then retitled that vehicle in California? What happens if a vehicle like that was titled in California, but then gets sold and retitled in some other state, still as a 32 Ford? It would be nice if someone could explain how these new regulations handle the common types of outlier situations that will be seen.
Flathead Gary, Don't go to DMV! DMV is a collection agency and if you go there 6 times, they will tell you about 6 differant forms you will need. Go to AAA. They are interested in helping you, not hindering you. I love California and will never leave it. I was working on my car all day outside in a t-shirt.
Amen. I often daydream of rust free hot rods, and warm sun, but I will take my salt, snow, and rust over the NAZI regime that is california politics...... Who in the hell elected these assholes? Now Ammo registration/thumbprinting... Just to screw the actual law-abiding citizen.... The scary part is that all of this godawful shit that starts in california usually goes east eventually....... It looks like a great place to live, but I couldnt deal with all the illegals, gangs, cost of living, and now having to put a SMALL BLOCK CHEVY in everything?!?! Must be part of the G.overnment M.otors takeover! Okay maybe I still want your rust-free tin but.......
I am amazed at the sense of suprize from most of the posts. This has been an issue for several years. I have posted quite a few references to what was going to happen or how a great many rods were not legal. Suggested getting involved, participate with SEMA and politicians. I worked on the beginnings of this latest development over 3 years ago as a director at SEMA. Do you know what the trigger for all of this was? The State finding out now much hot rods were worth, then getting a grasp of how much was claimed when titled. People buying a Boyd or Brizio hot rod, or a Cobra kit car car for over $100,000 were registering them for pennies on the dollar, after all, it was only an old car...not worth much. (ya, right!) You are talking about a large amount of tax dollars. Then the tree-huggers picked up the banner and joined this tax situation to the perceived pollution old cars spewed out. They lumped hot rods in with crap from the late 70's and 80's that are their last legs and gross polluters. So what happens? SEMA brokers a deal that at least allows hot rods to still exist in the state, in one form or another. And everybody pisses and moans. Well, if you have a ride that is basically a new car built by aftermarket parts, put together in years where smog and safety requirements were in force, you broke the law. It is a new car, not of the-year-it-looks-like vintage. And that is not new situation, it is just being enforced now. Face it, some sort of fuel injection is going to be the norm in years to come, computer controls, etc. Those that have gennie cars with right titles, well, the value just went up. And as far as the Calif bashing, those that don't know, just don't really know anything. Please do not move here, do not pay attention to the wonderful weather, swaying palm trees, snow-capped mountains and beautiful women you see when you watched the Rose Parade this morning. It was all a lie, just Hollywood magic. Do not come here to live, we need more elbow room. I will never leave, my family has been in LA since 1887, al of my cold weather genes have been bread out.
whatever happened to being able to go to the junkyard and selecting a car, rebuilding, getting it inspected by your local state boy to make sure it had working lights, and bumpers if it was newer than a 51? (or whatever year those became federally mandated) it got ruined by a number of different jack ass's... either by ones that were trying to steal and cheat the system, or ones that were trying to change a law so that it would profit there line of work (these were the real shenanigans)... these "shenanigans" that you refer to wouldnt have to take place if half of these bullshit laws weren't concocted. and heres a thought to those in CA... register your new builds for the first year in another state, one with lax (normal) laws... (they will gladly except your money, lol) than just register it in CA like you would as if you had just moved there the following year when your registration runs out... hell, do this while you can before they have that on a national system too... (laugh all you want, its WELL into the works to have a mandatory national ID... the first portion was supposed to be enacted already by oct of 2009, but they pushed it back)
To all you CA guys; you are all simply gonne go where WE Aussies have been for some time re registering hotrods on repro frames. Theres gonna be changes a comin' over there TRUST me....they're simply startin' with CA b/c that's where the centre of the hot rod universe is. Sure the Sate has a right to limit fraudulent activity......but to bring in GM in on the act in supplying eco friendly crate motors and accessories is kinda interesting don't you think? May I remind you guys as to WHO owns GM over there now? It IS a cash grab by your State Govt and it IS a form of further control. It WILL affect your hot rod aftermarmarketseverely ie: chassis builders and hot rod shops and it WILL drive people into OTHER WAYS of titling/registering their early car on repro frames. And if ya'all think that they can't police it - they can. Technology has come a LOOONG way and all they gotta do is target plenty of events (and theres a shitload in SoCal).....easy pickings for Feds fill the State coffers. Hell, you're gathering/coming to them in ONE place - kinda makes it easy no? Fines aplenty. Watch this space. Its not a debate about whether Cali is crap or the Mid West is better.....in time, other states will come online as they will see what potential revenues have been lost. Don't ask me how I know. Rat
A big part of the problem with this and many other laws is that most of the employees of the DMV haven't got a clue. Back in 2004 we built a "Specially Constructed Vehicle" and attempted to register it legally and honestly. According to the DMV's own website, because I was a hobbiest, not a professional shop, building the car at home for my own personal use and not for sale, I was exempt from all of the SCV regs. But even when I showed a print-out of that page to the supervisor at the DMV, they still didn't believe me. The bottom line was that I had jump through a bunch of unnecessary hoops, I paid $750 dollars for two temporary registrations that lasted for over a year. And we never could get the car registered properly. In 2006 we moved to Tennessee and got the car registered with no hassles, paid the taxes and we were on our way. So mostly due to ignorance on the part of their own agency, TN got the tax money that CA could've gotten. Yes, Mazooma1, we have those things here in TN, but we also have no state income tax, low property tax and real estate costs, $24 per year car registration no matter what it is, and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a car show, cruise-in, drag strip, or race track. I paraphrase: When they came for the Jews, I said nothing for I am not Jewish. When they came for the Christians, I said nothing, for I am not Christian. When they came for the guns, I said nothing for I don't own any guns. When they came for me there was no one left to speak up! That's grossly mis-quoted but I think you get the idea. It's up to all of us to speak up. Well, in my particular case, I lived in San Diego for 35 years and these issues are still of interest to me.
thats the problem with our hobbie beeing on tv. big brother watches too. they f ed with west coast choppers a few years ago about smog (damb epa trying to make the air breathable)
Oh, and I forgot to mention; no smog inspections of any kind.(At least in the county we live) So we don't have to put up with any of this crap.
so how do you go about restoring an old frame? say you have a cross member or a rail, and you need a new one to be safe. or 2 new rails and a x member to be safe, how the heck can you do this? just tacking the old frame vin skin to the new restored sections? the law is written goofy and the DMV are a bunch of idiots really, i mean resotring and saving old cars for our enjoyment and the futures is as important as saving a Renoir to many, so what gives when safety is in question?
Lemme get this straight...You list your location as "murder city" and yet you insist on taking shots at California? Where did you get your information? Fox news and talk radio? All 38 million of us (that's more than 1/10 the entire population of the USA) are doing just fine here...
Yep, it's a no-brainer. Get what overturned?; The laws that say lying on a title application or faking a VIN is a crime? Of course the big fine, the 'amnesty', is a money-grab, but revolking illegal titles is a no-brainer. They didn't need a new law to do that anyhow.
A sincere "Good Luck" to everyone in California. I hope you all can get this straightened out with minimal pain and suffering.
The comment about So-Cals roadster and the new smog motor. I think that car was built back in the late 90's. Suppose it will be titled for the year it was built? I'm sure we all remember the Prowler with it's stylish crash bumpers and cool fenders. I'm starting to get a vision of those on my new reproduction deuce highboy. Could this be what's in the future?
The Jalopy Journal
