! hell yeah !!! I scrounged around around and built a gasser. It doesn't have a strait axle/4 spd/ mag or all the ""PERIOD CORRECT"" shit but i wanted it to be dependable and safe and look like my dad mothballed it in 68/69. I opted for the hand lettered script used mine and my buddies buisness for sponsors! It does have a 331 old edelbrock tunnel nash 5 spd. and best of all it doesn't have enough power to tear up the bullitproof drive train! and at about 8000 rpm when i side step that bitch nobody cares any way! FRIEBERGER had a article in hotrod deluxe about starting a real HP/WEIGHT gass class !! WHEN DO WE START!! AND WHERE !!!DO IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE US LIKE THE NATIONALS USED TO BE! maybe at ardmore "oldest continualy operated track in the usa" hows that for nostalgia!!
Brotherhood of the Third Pedal...I love that! Hey, I've got one of those skinny dollar throwback gassers too. 67 Belvedere 4 door...Tunnel Ram 360, Four gear, sawzalled wheel openings, and a front bumper laying out behind my shed. I'm just about done scrounging parts. Should be able to start running it with the first of the new season. I don't think I've got 2500 in the whole contraption and I'm pretty sure I'll see some 10.50's once I've got it sorted. Anytime I've got a few minutes to kill, I go out in the yard and attack it with the holesaw. The whole shitwagon is as old school as you can get. Cars like this are just pure, raw fun.
Not to be a downer, but anyone building a FED today is only building a copy of art, not art itself. I'm more of a technology guy. I think distributors and mechanical injection are sort of like making art with wood block letters. Cam driven timing and fuel pumps are like a race horse with a rodeo saddle. The engines we should be building today, and would be the technology jump the guys made 45 years ago, would be to get rid of the cam, the lifters, and the pushrods. There's no reason you can't run electronic valves, electronic ignition off the crank, and port injection. Superchargers are a low tech way to get horsepower. When I see a supercharger or a turbocharger, I'm thinking Lockheed Super Constellation... It is traditional to push the envelope, and not get stuck doing what your grandpa did.
Yeah, I'll try to remember that when I'm smokin' the hides on a car I built from piles of tubing and sheets of aluminum. You go ahead and call it whatever makes you happy - as for me - DRIVING it makes me REAL happy. BTW my grandfather was a farmer - not that I understand how that's applicable anyways.
Well sure it does. Gardners plant tomatoes, racers build hemi's. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. When I see a 32 roadster with a flathead, I smile the same as I always smiled. Some stuff just makes a hobby interesting. It's not the money or the final product, it's just the journey, and the enjoyment.
Again Hemi, well said. I have to add that building it myself from scratch is a big part of it. But art? Who cares. I'm not building mine for accolades or the "art". I enjoy the process, the experience, dreaming, building, driving, all of it. Recardo, if all that high tech stuff trips your trigger, more power to you, but don't just talk. Talk is cheap... my actions talk for me. Dream it, build it, drive it, letting nobody stop you from doing what you want to do. That's what HemiRambler, King Chassis, Tim, myself, etc are doing.
i wish i lived back in the sixtys -50s so i could have had the chance to enjoy all of the different ways people figured out how to build there cars and make them go faster.yes there were poeple selling speed parts but there were also alot of people without alot of money doing it at home.nowadays the only time invested in going faster is the time it takes to order the part.i also think larrys will be awsome.i just dont understand why we{racers}cant just go out build it the way you want and not have someone bash it because it doesnt have the right motor,look,to much money etc.and for traditional the only kind of traditional fed in my eyes is a single rear hoop.i think its sad that if you have a original fed and you wanted to run it you cant unless you update it.yes i understand its for safety but in my opp.there isnt really anything safe about sitting on the pumkin trans between your legs and nitro exploding infrant of you.
But Grandpa did some amazingly cool shit. Come to think of it though, Gramps was using decades old technology when he was storming the quarter back in 64. Nitromethane, and roots style blowers were old hat to the aircraft guys when Grandpa was still pulling lunch through a nipple. As for the state of the art technology thing...Ha! Try it! Nitro rejects all that stuff like it was stamped out by Tonka. It wants no part of fancy multi-valve heads...and valve springs? The problem ain't getting the valve to close...the trick is forcing it open against thousands of PSI's of rapidly expanding internal combustion havoc. As for the art thing....what else could you possibly consider this stuff to be. It has no practical application anywhere in the universe for man, beast or alien. This stuff only exists for the enjoyment of those who dial the right side of their brain into it. What is happening here, now, is a quest for purity. We've witnessed the entire evolution of a culture...from the crude, primal beginning, to the sterile conformity that will eventually lead to its extinction. We're standing here at the end of this cycle, looking back and trying to pinpoint the high water mark..and it appears that the decade between 1964 and 1974 represents the maturity and essence of our culture. Years from now...decades from now...generations from now, people who study hot rods and drag racing, and participate in it as a hobby or lifestyle will all be emulating Wild Willy, and The Zookeeper. Kenny Bernstein and Tony Schumacher will only register as footmarks in what will be known as the cultures "dark ages". All that said, I have nothing against new technology. I find it all to be very interesting and useful. I understand it and work with it every day on my customers cars, and I enjoy reading about racers incorporating it into the latest machinery. BUT, my cars all have points in their distributors...because points, to me are friendly, simple, workable. I know their limitations and I know how hard they struggle to perform their task. They have a personality that changes with time and circumstance, and I can work with them using the simplest of tools that are mealy extensions of my own fingers and eyes. Points have soul...old Top Fuelers have soul...art is all about the soul.
^ exactly, SOUL. My wipers are turned on by a switch ON tha dash board. He's totally right. I'm not gonna take out a second to watch millionaires thump the 1320 in 4 seconds. I can do that right before the alarm goes off every morning. I wanna see a REAL fed smokum and scare the bejezus outta the driver. Props to team Force and all, just not my cup-o-t,bucket. haha
OK, this is driving me crazy, in a good way. I was born in '48 and lived close enough to the South Bay that Fremont, Half Moon Bay, and Salinas were all easy drives (unless you broke). I ran smaller Gas Class stuff and Jr Stock. We thought 50 ft of smoke was cool, and it was at midnight on the street. I live up north now, and for a while I worked for a guy that held the national record in a SBC FED running unblown nitro back in the day - within the correct period as defined by HAMB. He's older than me and builds and tunes for his kid who runs a modern unblown RED. Having been a pit monkey for them on occasion and listening to Frank Bradley advising, I agree with Tony - nitro is a bitch. I've seen this family build a couple of combination's that just would not work as designed due to the loading nature of nitro motors. This idea of balancing load with fuel to make your combination run is so over the top to guys who tune gas cars, that it's like magic. But, I think the way to build these classes that look right by HAMB rules and run well will turn out to be a lot about tires. We need the right tire technology to run smoker runs AND load the motor. So I say define the tires. Get Radir, M&H, somebody to sign the fleet to a spec tire and then go for it. Same for nostalgia street and Gas Classes. Put them on a spec tire (preferably pie's, with or without white sides ), and build the best combo to run that tire. For T/F, Altered, and the like - if you don't haze them to mid track, you're out here. Video cameras are cheap. If the camera does not see smoke at 1/2 track, you're run is not recorded, same as a red light. Now race under those constraints
True that. I grew up at the wrong time. I hear stroies from back in my home town some guy that would race his front engine drgster down 55th street. I love watching the old videos of front engines blowing oil all over the place going sideways. The real story is true though. When i was six i was at an NHRA race and bought a blower belt off of tony shumachers car. I went up to it and signed it. After that i was done i said fuck him and everother rich asshole out there. I really wish i was around when drag racing was real.
I really like this post and agree with it all except for the "copy of art" statement...There are some folks who will take what I'm trying to say literally and some who won't. My car is not a copy of an old car, but it definitely is influenced by them. It's new. It uses simple, but current technology that is not only beautiful, but new and REPLACEABLE. I agree a Donovan is not the same as an iron 392. I agree my car and it's high quality parts cost a lot more money in the short run. They are faster, stronger and safer parts, as is the chassis and everything else that goes with my gig. Talk to any veteran racer and they'll say that's money in the bank. As a side note, when I came up with the idea to do this I had to pitch it to potential backers. (All I had was a chopper, a hot rod and a 300 square foot apartment.) Every time I described how the cars would be built during these "pitches", which was basically iron 392s, my own frames, vintage parts etc I got the same response..."That doesn't sound safe." See, when folks lay down money for something like this they know it's a risk, but they want to minimize that risk wherever possible. So when they asked me, "Tim, what if you die?" I would come back with the old "I ain't afraid o' DEATH" monologue which is standard for wannabe race car drivers. This was big fun to do and usually went over pretty good, until the one investor that actually wanted to back me said, "Yeah okay, so you don't fear death. But if YOU'RE DEAD, how do I get MY MONEY BACK?" Thus started the path my gig has been on ever since...The best parts and craftsmanship money could buy. Which has led to more expense (debt), safety, reliable horsepower and speed than I ever thought possible. However, if you want to build a homegrown iron hemi rail for cheap I'm with you all the way! The machinations that are involved in my Armageddon Top Fuel project are complicated and frankly, my business. Thanks to them this rail is built. In '99 I got an idea, found a way to do it and never bullshitted anyone. It ain't over and nobody's "lost" a dime as long as I'm alive. Incidentally, I had everything for sale cheap for years and nobody wanted any of it. So now, it's between this rail dragster and me.
Nice candid reply - and I think it sets the record straight as far as what the spirit/intention of this ride is --> kind of a modern reincarnation. This is different than a "close to 100%" as possible copy/clone of something that was done 45 years ago and can't really even be replicated and ran today (given the safety requirements and frankly, what we've learned since those times). The spirit of Conder's project is as true to the period as possible . . . though the technology cannot be if safety and practicality are taken into the mix. Keep us posted as to when/where you plan to start running it -- hopefully we can see it pounding the 1320.
enjoyment?!? there ought to be something said for that. it's all art! you could build 10 cars just alike no two would be the same! that is what gives them soul! and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. flat heads are neat. i don't have much use for one though. home boys like donks on there 4x4 cutlass! i damn sure don't have any use for them but it's what melts your ice cream!! so dig in and build what ever the hell you want! and pop a fuckin wheelie!!
I think asking me "When are you going to run the thing" is like asking when California will have the next big earthquake... I make my living with my custom shop. Family first. Bills first. As I've said many times before...My "investors" split in early '02. Instead of liquidating the parts I assumed the debt. Anything and everything that's happened with this gig since then came from my pocket. If anyone wants to partner up and run the shit out of this car with me give me a call. I very much appreciate all the support from everyone who has anything positive to add (criticism or compliment) and believe this...I don't rant and rave about the things I do because I want you to think I'm "cool". I'm hoping that many of you will go do this. I haven't said anything anywhere that folks I know don't talk about as well. Unlike myself, there are people reading my posts that can afford to do it all right now, as we speak. They can afford to build the car. Make the slicks. R&D the runs. The NDRA started to try but their approach (water on the slicks, underpowered stock block engines and updated, tired old chassis') could only go so far. Without a good chunk of "mad" money coming from strong sponsorship or at least a partner or two to share the expense and risk, Ol' Satan's probably gonna sit right here for the year... - Good luck to all of you, I'll see you out there one of these days!
I ment no disrespect. I just wanted to see if the car was close to running on the track. I have followed this project for a long time and I'm looking forward to seeing the car run. I wish you all the luck.
Good words from a man who's doing it and not just bitchin'. That's what's wrong with a lot of people. They sit at thier computer and just bitch about what it could be and the way it was. If you're gonna bitch, do it while trying to make a difference. I wish him the best.
I know this has been "beat to death", but I would like to add my perspective on this. I'm not trying to blow my own horn (which usually means you are about to!) but, I have been around nitro racing my whole life, from this: (I'm on the right) To this: (Driving Gene Bouls A/ Fueler) I totally get where Tim is coming from, and really, his attitude is not far off the average guy in the TAD/ TAFC (or comp for that matter) pits. Many alcohol racers are far from rich. There is limited corporate sponsorship, the prize money is a joke, and the level of commitment is basically a lifestyle choice. You flat ass live drag racing to run in the Top Alcohol classes. In the mid 90's, my dad and I decided to field a small block chevy powered TAD (ala Santos), and our goal was to put it in the fives (which we did). I finished fourth in Div.4 (Top Alcohol Dragster) the following year. Because we are not wealthy folks, we built the thing ourselves, and on most occasions, it was just me, my dad and his girlfriend. I had to drive, do the clutch, the top end, and the computer. Other than Santos(who helped us quite a bit), there was nobody else running this combination, so there was really nobody to tap for tuning advice, etc. You also couldn't wander over to Brad Anderson's trailer if you needed parts. That fckin' car was my life for 4 years, it almost killed me a couple of times, and I'm damn proud to have done it! My point is, I think that you will find that most REAL Drag Racers are far from elitist types, and quite frankly, share the core values of Mr. Conder w/ regard to the spirit of Drag Racing, and really Hot Rodding in general. The only way to REALLY appreciate Drag Racing, is to Drag Race, there is NO way around it. HERE IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO: The solution to the "Nitro Racing is Too Expensive for the Average Guy" problem: Why in the hell wont somebody come up w/ a true Jr. Fuel class?: Iron small blocks or small chryslers one 13 gallon pump, NITRO, one mag, glide, heads up, SAFE CAR (if you want to kill yourself in same wore out crap pipe, that's fine- the guy in the other lane probably doesn't share your commitment to nostalgia.) Cheap, and REAL, and if anybody is interested, I'd build one in a heartbeat. I could probably bring some event sponsorship as well- Hell, let's get Ryan to have a Jr Fuel class at the HAMB drags!!! Sorry for the LongWindedness, Dave
I love the idea. Check this out. Iron small blocks with iron heads, zoomies and injection. http://www.angelfire.com/tx/fuelcarfan/jrfuelers/main.html
That seems like a cool series, but injected on alcohol (7.40's)just doesn't do it for me, I'd like to see similar rules, on nitro. Reasonably low dollar nitro racing, to paraphrase: "Why Not?"
I think this is a GREAT idea. I have zero experience campaigning a nitro car, but I've got a bit putting one together... Find a handful of solid, focused guys that want the same thing. Make sure you all have jobs and basic fab/engine skills. Pool your resources (i.e. parts, craft, shop space and cash) then don't let up until it's done. You will be amazed how cheap you'll be able to do it. This combination has been behind greats like the Surfers and the Road Kings (Prudhomme and Ivo's car club.) It ain't easy finding these circumstances. You can't "make" people show up, you can't buy it. It has to happen on it's own...My gig has never had it, but I'm always lookin'. - Tear it up!
...er, What I meant was you could probably build and run this car with 5 or 6 guys with jobs for what it costs to run Bernstein's Bar-B-Que grill during the weekend of a national event...
Ever see how much money guys in the Super Comp/Super Gas pits have in electronics, RV's, and trailers? Trust me, you could build yourself an all iron, injected sbc on nitro, w/ a spare long block, (assuming you know what you are doing) for less than most of these guys have in their truck and trailer, including a nice little front motor car. I would say that is a reasonable way to go nitro racing.
The Jalopy Journal
