Olds Cam questions...

i just got a very very nice old engle solid roller cam and the roller lifters for my olds motor project, i'm thinking its for late 324, it looks slightly larger than the stock cam i pulled out of my 303. so i need to know 2 things...

1) will it be fine to have the cam journal bored out to fit the new cam? or could the cam main parts be turned down to fit?

2) can anyone identify the cam, as i said its an engle, on the end of the cam there is a big 238 then under it says Engle, then stamped awkwardly towards the bottom of the end is 104.

if anyone can identify the specs of this cam for me it would be much appreciated!!!!

here is a pic showing the size diff.


here is a pic of the numbers on the end..

 

From the pic it looks like a 56 324,57/58 371 or 59 anf later 371 or 394. If you look at the front of the cam if there is a 1/4" space between the bearing and flange the it is a 59 and later cam. I don't have a engle book so I can't tell for sure. If it is your best bet would be to find a 56 324 block to build. It wouldn't even be worth trying to machine your block to make it work. I f you have a 303 or early 324 cam with the small bearing journal you can get the cam reground by Clay Smith, Isky, Delta cams in wa there a couple of outfits that do cam grinding.

 

Engle cams are still in business. I just googled engle cams and got Info. They were good to give specks on my 50s Cad cam a couple years ago

 

thanksguys.

CGkid, can you tell me why i would bennefit from buying a new block rather than just spending 150 bucks and having the cam journal bored?? the cams are identical in length in every aspect, only difference is diameter.

anyone else care to weigh in?

 

Why not have the cam journals turned down so they fit your block?

 

Can't speak to the Olds questions but can say that the guys at Engle are top notch and have great product. Highly recommended.

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the whole cam would have to be turned down, lobes and all, and i suppose its do-able... just as cheap to enlarge the cam journal in the block though, and i wouldnt be risking the cam i guess...

all i guess im looking for is conformation that its do-able and not a problem. i dont see why it would be a big deal to bore the cam journal seeing as how the block is still basically identical to the early 324 and 303.. only difference being bore and cam journal size..

 

Cam journal on the 303's to 55 324's is 1.8725----journal in 56 324 and 371's is 1.9980 . NO you can't just turn the cam journal down to fit because the lobes would not pass thru ....just fubared the cam. Bore the block to the 56 spects and use the cam as is,,,or get the correct cam for small journal block that you have.

 

Forgot ---ENGLE cam part no 1704 grind 238 short duration comp ex timing 68-38 in timing 38-68 duration 286 lift .440 settings in.013 ex .015
for use with 1.5 ratio rockers only 1964 price for kit cam rollers rocker arms inter outer springs alum retainers and pushrods= 360.00

 

DON WOW pulls through again! so, the machine shop should be able to enlarge the surface the flange sits on aswell correct? does anything need to be done of the timing cover?


so i can ONLY use 1.5:1 rocker arms???????? what would happen if 1.8's were used???

 

hey HOTROD...theres no way that larger diameter cam will fit your engine. had machine turning would cost as much a new cam. it's a no brainer!..POP.

 

holeshot, the problem is i have my heart set on using a real Engle.. and this is the only one i could turn up and i was lucky enough it was a roller with the roller lifters that came with it.. all in virtually new condition (very very very low miles).. if DON WOW says it can be done.. it can be done..

now, since the new problem arises in the rocker arm department.. i'm talking to this guy who is gonna sell me a set of McGurks but he doesn't know what ratio they are, and i cant really tell, thought maybe you could tell what ratio they might be DON WOW..

 

The deal on the kit is the springs were spect as to coil bind and open -closed pressure based on the 1.5 ratio. You can use 1.8 if you do a little math on new springs ---talk to a cam man about what stiffness is needed for the roller stick ---gonna be stout front cover non issue

 

This is solid advice. We deal with a lot of cam companies at our engine shop. I would contact Doug Engle at Engle cam to see about either getting a new cam, or finding somebody to bore your block to fit the cam you have. I saw Doug at the SEMA show two weeks ago, so give him a call. He'd be glad to help.

 

awesome, thanks DON WOW, youre my hero man.

do you have any idea on the rocker arms i posted a pic of, as to what ratio they look to be?

 

It might be worth checking with Engle to see if the lobe seperation and The BANK seperation is the same for both engines.. If not, IT WON"T WORK without correcting by regrinding. The success of that will depend on how much excess material there is available on the lobes.

"Been in the cam business over 50 years"

 

what exactly is lobe seperation and bank seperation? like i said, the cam is identical to the 303 cam just larger in diameter..

 

anyone?

 

Lobe seperation is the angle in degrees that the intake and exhaust lobes are seperated.
Bank seperation has to do with what the center to center distance of the cam and the crank is. This puts the 2 banks at different indexing in relation to each other.
2 cams from different engines can look identical to the naked eye but be off several degrees in lobe location and bank seperation.

 

crazy. does anyone of the olds guru's know the answer? are they the same in respects to what pete1 is talking about???

if no one knows i will call Engle tomorrow.

 

Send the cam to Engle and have the whole cam reground to fit your engine...

 

A little info---all early olds 49 to 64 have the same crank to cam center measurement ---all bank angles of the lifters are the same-- all the angle of the dangle is a non issue inside the block.

I can't see if the rocker is a 1.5 or a 1.8--hell can't even see USSR from here --but you can locate the rocker in a stable fixture and lift the pushrod end .25 of an inch then measure how much the valve tip end moved ----- .37 of an inch = 1.5 ratio ----.45 of an inch =1.8 ratio easy huh

 

My book ( 1964 ) shows #238 as a Nodular Roller SBC cam 265-327, High Displacement Competition

 

The part no for the sbc is 1004 ----olds 1704

 

Only reason I suggested the 56 engine is to save the machine work on the block. If you could find a complete engine you would be ahead in ci as well as better breathing heads.

 

awesome info guys.

i was planning on boring the block out to the 324 bore anyways, so i guess thats why i dont care to much about having to pay an extra 150 to have the cam journal bored.. i hear ya CGKid, sorry if i came off snappy, i already have a set of #8 head to put on it, but am keeping my eyes open for #10's.

late last night though, it occured to me, will my dizzy have the correct advance curve for the cam and all??? i have a Mallory Double-Life YC 250-C.. i guess the answer to this will be relative and in speculation, but atleast i will get an idea. if not who would be good to go to to have it corrected?

 

Send a PM to gmc bubba for ignition work.


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if it comes to that i def. will give him a try.. but does anyone know if it may or may not need to be modified to match the cam profile?

 

up again for the evenin crowd..

 

ok, new question, since i brought up the distributor.. since the gear at the end of the cam is a tad bigger than the 303, will this create a problem with the gear at the end of the dizzy???