Electrical problems.

polerized low juice is fine-

is it an adjustible regulator?
you may need to see how much its charging-
they have tabs that you bend to make the charge more or less-

do you have a guage that works?

I'll call you later- I'm guessing you just need to set up the reg- or tune it.


Note: Flatheads rule.

 

I'd start by checking if you have a good ground going back to the Batt.

( easy to do with one side of a set of jumpercables )

 

- Yes, as long as the RPM doesnt drop down too far at idle.

- Dont know for sure, but from all the generator equipped cars I've owned I only polarised the system once.
( as a precaution, because everybody said I should.)
All the other ones I just started driving, and they charged just fine.
Unless there was an obvious problem.
Fiat generators go through carbon brushes pretty quick, for example...

 

If you turn the lights on and crank it do the lights dim? Like the starter is pulling some juice from the battery? If they dont dim maybe the connection isnt good some where. Just a thought.
Might not matter too much if its starting with the jumpers though ??

 

1-theory-Well shit, it's almost impossible to fix long distance probs. But, to add my 2 cwnts, and FWIW, you mention polarize? I assume it's a gen and not alt? If so, the 30 minutes you said to have left it running while having coffee(?) would've done nothing. Generators, for the most part wont charge at idle. IF you can pull your battery caps, charge the battery a little and then have someone crank the motor over with the coil wire removed. If the batt has a bad cell, that cell should bubble the water as the battery wears down. This is if you don't have access to a load tester. Then, if the battery's OK, install a test lite between the battery and a disconnecting battery cable (either + or-). If you have a short, the light will come on. At this point you can pull fuses, one at a time until the light goes out. THAT will be the shorted circuit. Hope that helps.

2-a guess-you ran the battery down, then coincidentally, the charging system took a shit, maybe from tapping the cables backwards for a moment while jumping?

 

We used to park on a grade and jump start the car because we couldn't afford a new battery when we were kids. We could nurse worn out batteries for months it seemed. Today's batteries give no sign of any problem until they die.

I don't know if they are made differently today or not. The last 3 batteries have gone from performing fine to completely gone in one stop for coffee. We put a heavy duty shop battery charger on one and it blew the breaker in the shop!! Good one minute toast the next. Absolutely no warning signs.

 

I've seen old race cars, push start style, with those oval shaped cardboard sided spring terminal 6 volt batteries under the cowl to provide juice to keep the car alive. Doesn't take that much to run an old car,just a lot to start 'em, then the generator takes over.

 

I have a load tester if you want to check the charging system/battery.
And hey, at least it's cold and shitty out today...

 

Well spoken sir..

I might add that from the sounds of it your charging system is fine you just have a battery that on the surface measures decent voltage but can't deliver on the cranking amp side.

The newer style battery conductance tester check for usable surface area of the plates in each cell by sending a frequency through the whole system. It won't matter whether a battery is charged or not, what is checked is its ability to conduct current. How well it conducts this frequency will indicate it's state of health (SOH). This test will mirror it's timed-discharge capacity. In simpler terms, how many cranking amps can it make if it was fully charged.

Brant

 

Park it on a hill.

 

I had a melted wire coming from the generator that stuck to the intake one time.....

 

As 440roadrunner said 'new doesn't mean good". I have seen a lot of "new" dead batteries. That is what it sounds like to me so far.

As a precaution check the commutator end of the generator. If they are not polarized correctly you can overheat them to a point of de-soldering them. Seen it happen too many times. Mostly youngsters with a old car the first time around. If you see solder in the casing-new gen time.

 

Kevin, see the following thread that includes Bruce Lancaster's input on polarizing.

Jim

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365768&highlight=polarizing+ford+regulator

 

Wha'dja find out?

 

Oh man, I hate those kinds of problems. I feel for you. You need the old guy down the street who would know how to fix it in about 2 seconds. Trick is finding that guy if you don't know him.

This reminds me of a funny story I will share. Back when I first got my '53 3/4 ton from Povertyflats years back (off ebay no less). I bought it sight unseen of course. But it was a beat up old farm truck and that is what I wanted and exactly what I got. When it arrived on the delivery truck, the driver said it did run when he loaded it but now couldn't get it to start. I said fine, no big deal, let's just push it off the trailer and call it good enough and I'll play around with it. Well, shockingly, I was even dumber then than now and knew very little about how to really fix anything on an old truck, let alone anything electrical. I fooled around with it off and on for 2 weeks and wasn't having any luck. One day while I was tinkering with it out in front of my shop, I hear this old guy in overalls yell out me from down the street. He said 'Hey, you need help with that?' Of course I said no and didn't want to be bothered by some jackass on the street. He came over anyway and said he was sure he could get it started and would do it for $20. I said, well, WTF, 'you get it started and $20 is yours'. He pulls a screw driver out of his pocket and said get out of the way and get in the truck and start it when I tell you to. I am thinking why in the hell does he have a screw driver in his pocket? But, too late now. I just got in the truck and he said go for it. Turned right over and started right up. WTF? I got out and said what did you do? He said give me the $20. Mind you , this was all after absolutely no explanation from me what was even wrong or what I was trying to do other than get it started.

Well, I said, that seemed way too easy for $20 and tell me what you did first and I'll give you the $20. He said, see this screw driver. I said of course. He said it was BS. All he did was reach in and push the button under the solenoid with his finger and that started it. I didn't even know it had a button. I said well how did you even know that would do it. He said he didn't know for sure but sort of guessed it while looking at me from a 1/2 block down the street. I am thinking you have to be kidding me. I quickly gave him the $20 and said, well, definitely worth it for the lesson if nothing else. And it was now 'magically' running and running nicely too.

In the end, it was just dirty wire connections that need to be cleaned up. After 2 weeks of stupidity, that was it.

He would also come by after that asking if I needed any more help or maybe could spare and extra dollar or 2. I gave him a few every now and then. He saved the day and was actually a pretty nice guy too.

 

Man that last part of your post about removing the battery cable and it dying suggests that it is not charging unless it was at idle, that's where a gennie don't make nuthin'

Try it again, this time higher r's than idle.

Funny thing is, if you jumped from the battery terminal to the field terminal on the gennie, it should charge if it's good, unregulated though. Which won't hurt anything as it can't put out that much anyway and for the short time you would have it jumpered, you wouldn't run any risk of over charging. Doing this, would eliminate that generator from the equation. Then next would be the regulator, possibly not that it's bad, but more why ain't it powering the field in the gennie.

Which brings me back to the battery. If that old style ignition system is still in use, then they don't use much current. And a good battery, fully charged and assuming you don't have any other acessories in use, would potentially last for days, on the battery by it self.

Need more information, or more symptoms after testing this some.

 

You've recieved a lot of good advice, but here's my 2 cents: Check the simple stuff 1st. Here's what I'd do.

1. check all the battery/starter connections. Wiggle them around, make sure they're tight. Also take a multi-meter (El cheapo at Harbor Freight) and check the resistance between the battery & solenoid, and solenoid & starter. If you have more than an ohm or two, you have a bad connection. (This honestly sounds like your problem, because many times a car that will run but not start just has a bad connection which is no problem for the low amperage during running, but becomes a problem during the high amperage of cranking.)

2. Make sure you have a ground strap from your engine to your frame. The electricity can get to your starter just fine, but if it can't get back to your battery there's no point.

3. Take your multi-meter and check the voltage with the car off and with the car on. The battery with your car off should read around 12 volts, the battery with your car running should read around 14. (I doubt that this will be a problem.)

4. Check your battery voltage while a buddy cranks it over. If it falls below 8 or 9 volts, you probably have a bad battery.

5. Borrow a battery from another car and see what happens.

6. Perform a parasitic draw test. (Earlier in this post) Disconnect a battery cable and put one end of a test light/multimeter on the battery post and one end on the cable. If you read any voltage you have something draining the battery. (I doubt this is the case because even with a large draw it sounds like your battery dies too quickly.)

Hope this helps.

 

If you think about it as a charging system then you will want to use the parts that work together in that system. If you know what the generator came off of then just get parts for that application. If it came off of a 57 Ford, Plymouth, or Pontiac just order the VR for that make and model. Then look the polarizing procedure up in the book. I look it up every time. Should I know it by heart by now? Maybe but looking it up saves fried non returnable electrical parts. Good mechanics have reference books and use them.

Don't try to memorize every charging system. You don't need a lot of theory, just make and model and a Motors Manual.

A ford fender doesn't fit a Chevrolet...VRs and generators are the same way.

 

If you really want to diagnose the battery, load test it as stated above by monitoring voltage while cranking. You can validate that by checking voltage in individual cells if you have a battery with fluid service tops. Pop the lids and use a long nail as a probe on your volt meter to check the voltage in each cell. Assuming static voltage of about 12 volts, you can simply divide 12 by the number of cells, usually 6. From one cell to the next, look for 2 volts. I Put one probe on the neg post and check the nearest cell, move to the 2nd and look for 4 volts, 3rd, for 6 volts, etc. Find one not consistent with the others and you can write off the battery, provided you didn't discover a dry cell or something simple. Distilled water works wonders sometimes.

 

Hey Kevin one variable you have not thrown in there is the fact that it is cold as shit up there and that will make of break a battery quicker than anything.

But it does sound like you have a few more issues than just that, good luck my brother and send some of that snow this way!!!

 

Why don't you just put the good battery (from the vehicle you are using to jump it) into your car temporarily and see if the problem disappears? Then you know if the battery is bad without all this hi-tech testing stuff. If so, then buy a new battery. If not, then keep troubleshooting.

 

Exactly...start with the EASY stuff 1st. Swap out the batt..
Nothing exploits a "weak" battery more than cold temps.....how's the weather?

 

If I see that old guy again soon, I'll ask him to drop by next time he is out near KC. Probably can hop a freight and be there in a few days. Might be worth the 20 bucks.