Help! Lots of going through the PCV on new engine

Uh, doesnt matter how big the motor is, if the rings are sealed properly there isnt any more or less pressure in the crankcase no matter what cubic inch it is.

And how can it be the wrong intake? Its an sbc intake and its an sbc motor right???

 

Don't see anything wrong with that intake..pretty simple. If it didn't drop oil..didn't burn it..it was never there.

 

It looks to me like an LS or LT intake. I'm not the magic man who knows everything, but it doesn't look like it fits the motor(as far as the design of the exit route of crank case pressure....it may not match up w/the stock engineering). I'd also add that if the block wasn't properly clearenced it will look like a mess of silver mud when he pulls the pan.....hhhhhhhhhhh and phooooooo. It's not a stock motor Tinman. I'm not gonna get in a pissing contest over it either. These are just my observations from the pictures provided. I hope you and yours are well.

 

not the beast pic.

 

Went through 2 quarts of oil in 500 miles because I had a PCV valve with too light a spring in it. Trial & error there. Never saw no smoke out the pipes. I don't think I've ever seen a PCV valve on an intake. Not a good place for one..

 

My guess . at least for the bearing problem, was that the carb was toooo rich and washed the cylinders and got fuel in the oil causing the oil not to do its job.
As far as using oil my guess is a wrong PCV location and combo for the cam !!
I have had problems like this before ! If oil is sucked through the PCV valve and mixed with fuel for some reason it does not seem to show up out the pipe. Don't ask me how this happens but it does.

 

I seem to remember either Buicks or Pontiacs from the 1970's having pcv valves in the valley pan below the intake. On another note, I did a motor for a customer once who was sent to me by a buddy. The guy had disassembled his OT pickup and wanted us to finish assembling the motor and install it with a new clutch, pressure plate & throwout bearing. Upon finishing the job it seemed like the trans or throwout bearing was making a slight noise at idle. Well the customer complained his ass off and we had the trans out twice after he swore up & down that the truck never made that noise before we touched it. Well, I talk to the "buddy" that referred him to us and he states that the guy was complaining about the noise since before he took the motor out. The moral of the story is, some people will look you dead in the eye and lie to your face to get you to assume responsibility for their actions.

 

Fuzzy is right. If the oil makes it into the intake and mixes with the fuel it really doesn't smoke. You should look at the intake gaskets and make sure they are sealing good as well. RPM has a big effect on how much oil is flying around under the intake. If you run 3500 rpm steady the shit is hitting the fan.

One more thing to check is side clearance on the rods. If it is excessive you get alot of splash and windage onto the cylinder walls. That combined with excessive vertical oil clearance on the bearings (crossdrilled crank?) can flood the rings and make it harder for them to seat.

 

I'm thinking rich too, he said the tops of the pistons were black, sounds like a lot of carbon for that few miles.

 

to me it looks like it probably was set up to run to rich because I would think it would act like it had a big vaccum leak. I say this because it appears that the pcv valve is connected to manifold vaccum, below the throttle plate. if this is the case. it would have been sucking up air and oil through the valve at idle. I'm pretty sure that port on the carb is for a power brake booster which needs a constant supply of vaccum. a pcv valve is usually routed into the air cleaner because crankcase pressure should force it open, it shouldn't have vaccum pulling it open.

 

IMO,,, no matter what was wrong with the motor, burning 5 quarts of oil in 100 miles would made a HUGE freaking SMOKECLOUD that could not be missed by any living breathing human that could either see or smell..

Short of a huge leak, or a reasonable explanation of just where the oil went, considering the fact that no OIL PRESSURE guage was used, I say if this guy is a paying customer, he should be happy with whatever HELP you DECIDE to give him.

Any dumbass SHOULD know, that a new engine should be watched carefully, ESPECIALLY the heat and OIL PRESSURE. This owner was negligent, period.

I watch this stuff even when I KNOW everything is right. Because that is what we SHOULD do. duh.. you should not be EXPECTED to subsidize STUPIDITY..

 

the valve is spring loaded to only open at a specific amount of vacuum, i've seen factory ones set up below the throttle plate like that, when the throttle is closed high manifold vacuum will open the valve, when the throttle is opened manifold vaccume drops and the valve is closed,or not open as far. Same with the booster, booster works from vacuum below the throttle plate ,when you take your foot off of the gas to press the brake, the throttle plate closes and manifold vacuum under it increases.

 

You did everything you could or should be expected to do. Even ran and broke it in . The owner was negelient he should of been shure he had a reliable working oil guage. He should of checked the oil very often. you cannott and should not be expected to be held accountable for anything. Tell him to go fuck himself. You sold him a good engine it is not your fault that he fucked it up. Many engines have a PCV in the intake valley. Every small block i have ever has the vacuum line for the PCV below the throttle plate. If you put it together wrong it would have let you know very ouickly when you first started it. Bet he forgot to put oil in when he changed it or didnt get the drain plug in tight and it came out. The bottom line he was the one who ran it without oil not you. OldWolf

 

Have to agree here, he forgot to put the oil in, no way he wouldn't know it either. 5- litres of oil on the work bench when he finished would have been a dead giveaway.

 

No puddle.?? Hmmmmmmm..... Stick your finger up a tail pipe... 5 quarts in 100 miles is going to leave a wet spot somewhere.. Plugs would show oil.. There is no way for the oil to get to the transmission unless you have one of those duel oil/trans cooler piles of shit that had a magic piss hole .. Thats about as far of a reach i can think of as far as motor oil in the trans... I'm thinking as many here are.. It was drained and not replaced..

 

Absolutely. I'm sort of an expert on cars that have burned oil like a WWII Japanese battleship. You'd have to be blind or heavily sedated to miss it.

Bob

 

It´s an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake for SBCs up to 86. It does fit and there were no leaks around the manifold.The engine ran great and smooth, no like it had vacuum leaks.

Today I got some more information from the owner. The guys who put the motor in his Merc had removed the mechanical fuel pump and used an electrical one... without a fuel pressure regulator. As far as I know are Edelbrock carbs sensitive if it comes to fuel pressure. Too much fuel pressure( higher than 5psi if I remember right) can cause a way too rich a/f mixture, what would be a logical cause for the fouled plugs and carbon on the piston tops.
The owner also said the mileage was ridiculous...
I have the engine completly disassembled now and I´ll go through every part next weekend.

The owner of the merc seems like a nice and upright guy and I don´t think he wants to bullshit me. I rather think that he just doesn´t have a clue .
Thanks a lot for your input and your thoughts , everything´s super useful to me cause I won´t be reassembling an engine that went bad without knowing what was wrong to begin with.
Thanks!!
Chris

 

Do a search (damn that search word again) there's a very good tech post on putting a pcv valve in a chevy intake. At least I thought it was good, and I'm not even a chevy guy.

I doubt, like many others, that the pcv valve could have caused the problem. I'm with the guys who think he didn't refill after the oil change, or filled the wrong fill tube, IE the tranny fill.

 

I am sure the guy is nice when he screwed up and didn't put oil back in the car after changing it . He screwed up a new rebuild engine and now he has nothing to show for after spending all that money on a rebuild ! So now he is real nice to you hoping you will foot the bill for another engine .

If there was oil in the engine and it was sucked out the exhaust pipes then he would have seen it and smelled it ! Bottom line ! So if he didn't see it or smell it , then there was never any oil on the engine . He wouldn't be the first guy that forgot to put the oil back into the engine after an oil change either !

I am with NO OIL !!!!

RetroJim

 

I noticed that, too. Not that you would pull five quarts through there, but it didn't look right to me...

 

x10.....and..........ran it that way, low pressure, starving the bearings, but, not even knowing the oil pressure was low, because of the gauge.

 

I have had two customers bring me cars with engines that were starved of oil. Both were admitted "oopsies". Both of them are now equipped with electric fuel pumps and oil pressure switches. I suppose that you could do this with a solenoid after a mechanical pump too. Can't make everyone smart, or turn away all of the dumb ones.

 

Yes, that PCV is routed to the power brake port. The PCV port is on the front of the carb body, you can see it in this pic...

 

I am no expert but this is sure a fun guessing game (no offence to anyone), having a vacuum on the crank case I would think to be a performance enhancement.
Have read on the h/p torque gains made by installing a pump on the crank case.
Have also experienced first hand how fast performance/ operation declines with out ventilation of the lower end...

 

Baumi..Keep us posted on your findings. This is one to file away for the future..

 

Just a thought.If the guys removed the fuel pump & installed an electric pump & didn't install a block off plate I would think the oil would have come out thru the block.

 

No way it was the PCV, I ran my PCV like that on the 360 in my duster for years and a lot of miles with no signs of oil consumption. Yes, I ran it with direct manifold vacuum as well. The PCV port on the front of a carb has non ported vaccum so there is no difference whatsoever.

I had another 360 in a cordoba that I broke a ring in and it went through a lot of oil and you surely knew it! One muffler actually got plugged up with soot from that one!

Buddy needs to man up and say he made a large mistake forgetting to put oil in it and will pay to fix it.

 

I waS ALWAYS SCARED SENDING ENGINES OUT AND LETTING ??? strange people install them and make some crazy mistakes

I sure hope that the customer is planing on paying for at least all the parts to make the engine whole again

It surely is not your fault that they run it out of oil and also washed the cyl walls with excess fuel

I have been through this and sent out a blower engine, run out of water and oil, split one block through the cam and twisted the other also out of water and oil, but did not claim waranty

when I was younger sold some stuff that customers plainley trashed and wanted waranty, gets old a lot of free work

 

I'm with the no oil camp.

I don't normally run a PCV valve. The only reason to run one would be emissions compliance (but they did'nt even show up till the mid 60's) or no breathers on the valve covers. In that case you would need one, and I see that you have a breather on the oil fill tube to allow air in, so it should work ok. All in all a nice looking motor.

 

Well for one thing it keeps the engine cleaner, rather than have oil dumping out of the breathers all the time (although at WOT it makes no difference). Keeps things cleaner inside the motor too, takes the moisture out of the crankcase, all that good stuff. Does nothing to impede performance either, so why not?