I have a lead on a '64 GTO Convertible. Any suggestions on how to confirm its the real deal? Anything specific on this car to look for? Thanks, JW
Not in '64.... If there is a 5N on the data plate, that's a good sign, but this may not be present depending on what factory your car was built at. The BEST thing to do is spend some $$ and send the VIN to www.phs-online.com - they will supply you with the original billing history for your car that will tell you if your car is a 'real' GTO. (actually it only verifies that the submitted VIN belonged to a GTO - you still need to be aware of the possibility of a tag swap during the car's history). If you are lucky enough to have the orginal protecto-plate, that would tell you whether it was a real GTO as well.
Roll down the rear quarter windows and look at the inside of the quarter panels, between the door and rear wheels. A Le Mans will have many holes from the gills or louvers that have been filled in. Everything else un-bolts, and could be changed. The final word would be PHS.
As mentioned some of them have a 5N on the data plate but that only applies to cars built at certain plants - I don't recall which ones. If you need proof quickly, PHS will fax the information for a little extra cash.
My Dad did this, with the fax so he didn't have to wait to check on the legitimacy of a GTO. It's well worth the money since it's fairly easy to fake one and Pontiac Historical Society paperwork isn't that expensive. You can't necessarily tell from the VIN or data tag. Don't risk paying real GTO money for a clone to save the $50 it costs to check it out.
There were 4 plants that produced the Lemans. Only two produced Lemans with the GTO package. GTO was not an actual model until the 66 year. The 5N code denotes the Fremont or Kansas City plants where the 64 and 65 GTO's were made. The ONLY way to know for sure is through PHS. You should definitely spend the money to find out about what you are buying, doesn't cost that much and it's good insurance. These two model years were cloned often because they weren't an actual "model" and because of the 5N code, at least until PHS came along!!
Personally for me it wouldnt matter if it was born that way (gto) if its a good deal. Like the others have said, GTO was a option in 64 and 65. All your doing is adding a option. Id bet the majority of cars at action have had a ton of options added. I dont subscribe to the purist point of view because I dont buy or build cars as investments. Iv had original and option added GTOs and loved um all. BTW 64 isnt easy to fake. The original parts (hood -4 spoke wheel .) are hard to find and expensive when you do .
More misinformation... There were four plants that produced A body pontiacs in 1964 (Baltimore, Kansas City, Pontiac, and Fremont). ALL of them produced GTO-optioned Lemans. ONLY Kansas City and Pontiac used the 5N code to denote the GTO option. Baltimore and Fremont did not use the '5 line' coding system on the data tags. There have been documented examples (albeit very few) of GTOs built at Pontiac/KC that are missing the 5N but are documented GTOs.
A '64 GTO is quite easy to fake, there were no GTO-specific tail lights or grilles like the '65 and later GTOs had. Add the hood and you've got a GTO, good enough for most casual GTO fans. It's true that the '64 hoods are hard to come by and are not reproduced, I see them trading these days for between 1K and 2K depending on condition. The 4-spoke wood wheels are '64 GTO and big Pontiac only, but '64 GTOs were not commonly equipped with that wheel since it was an option. PHS docs are the only sure way.
I worked at the Fremont plant in '64 and remember the first GTO to come down the line there. The biggest difference was that the GTOs' had convertible frames for stiffness. I don't know how to check for that but it's a clue...
Well, he's buying a convertible so that's no help. I've never heard of any '64 GTOs other than convertibles coming with the fully boxed convertible frames. I do know that in the early '70s there was a heavy-duty frame option that put the boxed convertible frame under 2-door A-body hardtops. PHS is the only way, before you drop any coin find out for sure. A true GTO has twice the value of a comparable LeMans or Tempest, don't pay 'GTO money' for something that really isn't one.
The '64 GTO was a Tempest-- not a Lemans. I bought mine used on June 11, 1967. I plan to restore it in the near future. I think that the '65s were the first ones that were Lemans GTOs.
Yes, technically, the GTO option was a $295 option on the Tempest, but they used Lemans taillights and Lemans bucket seats.
The GTO was an option on the Lemans, not the Tempest. The Tempest body was built using a completely different rear tail panel, there's no way to bolt a set of LeMans/GTO tail lights onto a Tempest body. Both the GTO and LeMans were upscale models derived from the Tempest line. Tempest tail panel and tail light treatment. No cutouts in the rear panel to accept the GTO/LeMans tail lights. GTO/LeMans tail light treatment. GTO/Lemans rear panel, with no lights installed.
Really? Try http://www.gtoforum.com/ and http://www.gtoheaven.com/ I think they may have all the info you want and more....
get phs documents alot of gto people here below http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=429 Paul Jug
Never heard as much misinformation in such a short time in my life! Thank God most was promptly corrected. One thing that wasn't corrected is that ALL 64 GTO's didn't have a convertible (or boxed) frame. Only if you got a convertible or ordered the heavy duty frame did you get the boxed frame, so don't all of you 64 owners with non boxed frames go crazy thinking your frames have been swapped out. Also, 65 are very easy to clone also. As in 64, no different grills or taillights. Just emblems and hood. And now the hood is repoped. So, if you are in the market, be sure to get the phs paperwork if you desire a real car. 66-71 cars can be determined by the vin # having '242' as the first 3 numbers.
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